Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[RedheadDane]

Funny little story.
During stage 20 of the Giro - I'm pretty sure it was stage 20 - the Danish commentators mentioned how Rolland was the only active French rider with stage wins in both the Tour and the Giro.
Guess Pinot decided to change that statistic!

 

[yaco]

My guess is the French would be delighted, if a team like Sky could take a young protegy under their wing to win the TDF - They don't have to ride for a French team.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

My guess is the French would be delighted, if a team like Sky could take a young protegy under their wing to win the TDF - They don't have to ride for a French team.

Not in my case.

 

[Valv.Piti]

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

My guess is the French would be delighted, if a team like Sky could take a young protegy under their wing to win the TDF - They don't have to ride for a French team.

Not in my case.

We agree .

 

[Gloin22]

Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

You seem to forget Bardet was as hyped as Gaudu in his first season or so, very similar performances in both stage races and Ardennes so far

Gaudu cant TT so hes just another Bardet in the making

You're like a *** Dutchie, few good performances and hypes everyone under the sun, its just you do it to all talents and not just dutchies :lol:

 

[Tonton]

Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

You seem to forget Bardet was as hyped as Gaudu in his first season or so, very similar performances in both stage races and Ardennes so far

Gaudu cant TT so hes just another Bardet in the making

You're like a **** Dutchie, few good performances and hypes everyone under the sun, its just you do it to all talents and not just dutchies :lol:

I cant help myself, but I think Gaudu is pretty special. Lets see.

Tonton: Yeah, should probably have phrased it better. I mean they can't win under 'normal' circumstances, if you get me, a la pedale. Im pretty sure of that. But obviously they can win, but they need to add one more level and be lucky IMO.

 

[Red Rick]

He's gotta develop hard tho. The real brightest talents break through and get major results super early. Most only make minor steps after 24.

What good is, komt snel

Good things come quickly.

 

[staubsauger]

Keep in mind that back in the 90s and 00s you still used to be a young talent with 24 (Pantani, Cunego, Berzin, etc.). That somehow changed this century with riders like Pinot, Quintana etc. that arrived very early on the scene. Bardet as well. But obviously he still belongs to the guys that make huge steps forward from 24+. Gesink would be the reverse example. It's not so easy to say anymore. Some riders are oldschool (big development from 24+), some riders are newschool (big development until 24)!

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

No. Oranges aren't apples.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

He's gotta develop hard tho. The real brightest talents break through and get major results super early. Most only make minor steps after 24.

What good is, komt snel

Good things come quickly.

Of course. But doing things like he did in Catalunya or F-W is quite spectacular at 20 y/o. He is in no rush. David 'VO2 MAX' Gaudu

 

[yaco]

I believe you find out by year 5 if a rider can win GC at a GT - Year 3 you unofficially target GC and year 4 and 5 are serious tilts at GC.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

Don't expect anything at this year's Tour, though, please, for his sake. He'll struggle with the daily intense efforts, so should rest up and go for a stage win like Ciccone did in the Giro last year (mind you, what happened to Ciccone?)

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

No. Oranges aren't apples.

Romain and Thibaut are every bit as good as Aru IMO. Bardet is probably better, and Pinot definitely better. Aru enjoyed weaker fields. So his better GT record is misleading.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

No. Oranges aren't apples.

Romain and Thibaut are every bit as good as Aru IMO. Bardet is probably better, and Pinot definitely better. Aru enjoyed weaker fields. So his better GT record is misleading.

Agree.

 

[staubsauger]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

No. Oranges aren't apples.

Romain and Thibaut are every bit as good as Aru IMO. Bardet is probably better, and Pinot definitely better. Aru enjoyed weaker fields. So his better GT record is misleading.

Agree.

Seriously let's wait for this year's Tour with that final judgment. Because if Aru fails there again, he's nothing more than a Roberto Pistore with a lucky gt victory. He might as well fight back and be the joker he was expected to be one year ago ...

 

[Tonton]

19 years old, first pro win, the GC at the 46th Giro Della Valle d'Aosta.

https://youtu.be/JB3_ZOvJ1Cw?t=147

Notables: 7th Geniez at 7'00...12th Betancur at 24'52" ....31st Nairo Quintana at 54'41" . Behind Arnaud Courteille. Degenkolb was there, Cimolai, Brambilla...Fabio Aru 48th at 1h14'06".

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

The only French-rider who realistically can win TdF is Gaudu, Pinot and Bardet doesn't have that extra compared to their peers, Gaudu potentially does in 4-5 or so. Hopefully he stats at FDJ.

For all three of them, it's two early to tell. If Aru (or Hesjedal) won a GT, Bardet and Tibopino can do it. It's a matter of circumstances. Even Crushweak, barring his fall, would have hit the Jackpot. Gaudu: I have big hopes for him. He's showing a lot at an early age.

No. Oranges aren't apples.

Romain and Thibaut are every bit as good as Aru IMO. Bardet is probably better, and Pinot definitely better. Aru enjoyed weaker fields. So his better GT record is misleading.

His GT record isn't "only" better. There's a universe of distance between his and Bardet's/Pinot's.

Much like Pinot enjoyed a weaker field in 2014, for example.
Even Bardet's 2nd place last year wasn't a !11111!!11!1!! performance, considering Porte got the usual bad luck and Quintana's form was crappy. Hell, even Yates was 4th.

The guy was 3rd and 5th in 2014 (against a better opposition than the one Pinot faced that year in the Tour) and 2nd and 1st the following year. Placing him, Bardet and Pinot in the same place isn't really a rational conversation to have.

 

[Tonton]

Aru is like the Black Album: very good, but way overrated . (Netserk I owe you 10 bucks).

Last year he was playing with the big guys: this year again, he'll get down to Earth. He's at Mollema level: really good. See my post above...in '09 he was one hour behind vs. Il Grandissimo Tibopino, the '11 and '12 he wins the Giro DVA...goes to Astana, Ninja rider, no one took him real seriously...a little bit like Dumoulin in a way.

Now Aru is on the map. Last year at the Tour, he was treated that way, finished 13th. He's better than that, but not that much better. The same can be said about Bardet: Romain will be marked after his second place last year. Except that Bardet is, I believe, better than Aru.

Aru is not better than Tibopino...nope.

 

[lenric]

When both Pinot and Bardet have 3 top-3 (including a GT win) we can chat about who's the best GT rider of them. Until that happens, sorry, but there's really not much to talk about other than fairy tales.

Both Pinot and Bardet have not done anything comparable to Aru so far in GTs.That doesn't mean they won't surpass him (which I honestly hope they do, since I expect someone other than Dumoulin has the capacity to challenge Quintana in the next years), but right now Aru is a proven GT podium contender. Pinot and Bardet aren't and this is a fact.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

When both Pinot and Bardet have 3 top-3 (including a GT win) we can chat about who's the best GT rider of them. Until that happens, sorry, but there's really not much to talk about other than fairy tales.

Both Pinot and Bardet have not done anything comparable to Aru so far in GTs.That doesn't mean they won't surpass him (which I honestly hope they do, since I expect someone other than Dumoulin has the capacity to challenge Quintana in the next years), but right now Aru is a proven GT podium contender. Pinot and Bardet aren't and this is a fact.

Fair enough. But I think that Pinot and Bardet will eventually get a much better career. Will they win a GT? I don't know. But I see Aru being given way less room to wiggle: he won one already. He's not a Ninja anymore.

Pinot has won and achieved so much more overall that to me, there's no need for a photo finish. Tibopino is way better. Just turned 27. The future will tell us.

When I posted the Giro Della Valle d'Aosta results, it was for a good Thibaut picture, then I dug: How can Quintana (and Aru) lose almost an hour in six stages and a few years later become so strong? This is not the place for this debate, but man...

 

[Tonton]

Looking back at this, posted on the FDJ site after Tibopino wins, ahead of the final ITT.

Maintenant, il y a le chrono décisif de Milan. J’espère avoir de bonnes sensations. Ce soir, il y a un long transfert, je vais avoir le massage dans le bus, c’est une première…

Translation: Now here comes the decisive ITT in Milan, I hope that I get good sensations. Tonight is a long commute. I will have my massage in the bus, that's a first...

FDJ has to go from a Mom and Pops organization to a XXI century cycling team...

 

[rghysens]

Looking back at this, posted on the FDJ site after Tibopino wins, ahead of the final ITT.

Maintenant, il y a le chrono décisif de Milan. J’espère avoir de bonnes sensations. Ce soir, il y a un long transfert, je vais avoir le massage dans le bus, c’est une première…

Translation: Now here comes the decisive ITT in Milan, I hope that I get good sensations. Tonight is a long commute. I will have my massage in the bus, that's a first...

FDJ has to go from a Mom and Pops organization to a XXI century cycling team...

Including marginal gains?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

When both Pinot and Bardet have 3 top-3 (including a GT win) we can chat about who's the best GT rider of them. Until that happens, sorry, but there's really not much to talk about other than fairy tales.

Both Pinot and Bardet have not done anything comparable to Aru so far in GTs.That doesn't mean they won't surpass him (which I honestly hope they do, since I expect someone other than Dumoulin has the capacity to challenge Quintana in the next years), but right now Aru is a proven GT podium contender. Pinot and Bardet aren't and this is a fact.

Fair enough. But I think that Pinot and Bardet will eventually get a much better career. Will they win a GT? I don't know. But I see Aru being given way less room to wiggle: he won one already. He's not a Ninja anymore.

Pinot has won and achieved so much more overall that to me, there's no need for a photo finish. Tibopino is way better. Just turned 27. The future will tell us.

When I posted the Giro Della Valle d'Aosta results, it was for a good Thibaut picture, then I dug: How can Quintana (and Aru) lose almost an hour in six stages and a few years later become so strong? This is not the place for this debate, but man...

Don't dig up results in the past, they can be misleading. Dumoulin finished on 1 hour of Quintana in Tour l'Avenir 2010.
A year later Quintana finished far from the front and Chaves won.. with Dumoulin as 15th.

Really, you shouldn't go on about u23 results too much