Teams & Riders Thibaut Pinot discussion thread

[42x16ss]

I inferred something different from that scene of his team riding with him, hugging him. Fragile ego.

Or popular with his teammates and nobody else in a strong GC position anyway. The stage was gone, so what's the point of continuing to race hard?

 

[macbindle]

Sure, no point pushing on. But the hugging?? Which other rider can you imagine being hugged like that in those circumstances? Sagan? Alaphilippe? Roglic?

I might be reading too much into it, but it smacks of a fragile rider and a team culture that panders to it.

 

[gregrowlerson]

His Lombardia win > all of Porte's wins combined.

Races such as Paris-Nice mean nothing?

 

[gregrowlerson]

Too soon

 

[SHAD0W93]

Sure, no point pushing on. But the hugging?? Which other rider can you imagine being hugged like that in those circumstances? Sagan? Alaphilippe? Roglic?

I might be reading too much into it, but it smacks of a fragile rider and a team culture that panders to it.

Yes you're right, everyone that receives a hug or hugs from their friends and colleagues after having something bad happen to them while they continued to fight through it only to falter has a fragile character and a giant ego that needs to be stroked.

 

[macbindle]

Yes you're right, everyone that receives a hug or hugs from their friends and colleagues after having something bad happen to them while they continued to fight through it only to falter has a fragile character and a giant ego that needs to be stroked.

I'm not talking about "everyone"

I'm talking about top level sport. To me this is a symptom of somebody that lacks the psychology to win this race. It's not like it is the first time we've seen this. He has DNFd more Tours than he has completed. That isnt just so-called 'bad luck'.

Again, I'm struggling to think of actual winners who would accept being hugged like this. Alaphilippe had a crap day too. No hugs, no dramas.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I'm not talking about "everyone"

I'm talking about top level sport. To me this is a symptom of somebody that lacks the psychology to win this race. It's not like it is the first time we've seen this. He has DNFd more Tours than he has completed. That isnt just so-called 'bad luck'.

Again, I'm struggling to think of actual winners who would accept being hugged like this. Alaphilippe had a crap day too. No hugs, no dramas.

Psychological maybe he was lacking in the beginnings of his career, specifically in descents, but he has worked on that. You can't blame physical trauma on someone's psyche, especially when he keeps on coming back from said physical trauma and tries to get better. You can say maybe he is more brittle and prone to injury which can be heightened over a 3 week race compared to a week or one day. Last years injury was definitely bad luck from getting hit from someone's handle. Not everyone responds to pain and trauma the same way. Sure Tyler Hamilton finished the Tour with a broken collarbone, Kurt Angle won an Olympic gold medal with a broken fricken neck, and Terrell Owens played in the Super Bowl with a broken leg and torn ligaments but not everyone can do that. Maybe he goes and wins the KotM and several stages in TdF and gets good results the rest of the year.

 

[macbindle]

I hope he does go on to win some stages, he did light up the Tour last year, albeit briefly. I also think that should be his focus in future, rather than a podium.

If you take emotions out of it and look at the guy dispassionately you cant ignore that in the last 6 years he has only completed the Tour once. There is more to this than bad luck.

Maybe he would have been better off if there had been another French contender during those years and he didnt have the pressure of being the great French hope.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Sure, no point pushing on. But the hugging?? Which other rider can you imagine being hugged like that in those circumstances? Sagan? Alaphilippe? Roglic?

I might be reading too much into it, but it smacks of a fragile rider and a team culture that panders to it.

Contador when he abandoned the Tour 2014 got a hug from Michael Rogers before he went into the car.

But I guess Contador just “lacks the psychology to win” and that he is not a “actual winner”

 

[RedheadDane]

Alaphilippe had a crap day too. No hugs, no dramas.

I suspect it's less of an issue to lose time when you weren't ever really going for the GC.

Yes. Pinot is emotional, and carries his heart on his sleeve, and is very much the hugging type.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Breezy1985]

I'm not talking about "everyone"

I'm talking about top level sport. To me this is a symptom of somebody that lacks the psychology to win this race. It's not like it is the first time we've seen this. He has DNFd more Tours than he has completed. That isnt just so-called 'bad luck'.

Again, I'm struggling to think of actual winners who would accept being hugged like this. Alaphilippe had a crap day too. No hugs, no dramas.

An entire nation is obsessed with his form, results and potential and every year after defeat and set backs he comes again gets up and tries to put himself back in the battle and you think he's fragile.

The same people who say he is fragile also say he should quit aiming for the top and become some average stage hunter well sorry but to me swapping your dreams for mediocrity is far more a sign of fragility than crying and getting a hug from a friend

 

[gunara]

Sure, no point pushing on. But the hugging?? Which other rider can you imagine being hugged like that in those circumstances? Sagan? Alaphilippe? Roglic?

I might be reading too much into it, but it smacks of a fragile rider and a team culture that panders to it.

Aru? At least at one point of his career, I got the impression he was carried by the whole team more than other leaders were.

 

[bob.a.feet]

I hope he does go on to win some stages, he did light up the Tour last year, albeit briefly. I also think that should be his focus in future, rather than a podium.

If you take emotions out of it and look at the guy dispassionately you cant ignore that in the last 6 years he has only completed the Tour once. There is more to this than bad luck.

Maybe he would have been better off if there had been another French contender during those years and he didnt have the pressure of being the great French hope.

He has completed two of the last six Tours - unless you are counting this year's Tour, which considering the fact that the Tour hasn't ended yet it's quite obvious why he hasn't finished it. In 2016 and 2017 he was sick, in 2019 he got injured and in 2018 he didn't enter.

You say that there's more to this than bad luck - are you implying it's his 'mental fragility' that made him sick and injured his leg?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I feel that some of you are blowing things out of proportions. Pinot performed really good on Critérium du Dauphiné. He would likely do the same on the Tour, but he crashed early and hurt his back.

In the end he just had some bad luck.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Sure, no point pushing on. But the hugging?? Which other rider can you imagine being hugged like that in those circumstances? Sagan? Alaphilippe? Roglic?

I might be reading too much into it, but it smacks of a fragile rider and a team culture that panders to it.

Here we go again. Apparently pro cyclists are not allowed to have a kind and gentle personality or they will be considered 'fragile' and 'weak'. Yes he is more emotional than most other GC contenders. I'd argue that is exactly why he seems to be so popular with his teammates and why they will hug him. For any rider to fail at their main objective of the season will be incredibly frustrating and disappointing, which his teammates understand all too well. Or maybe you feel hugging teammates is only allowed after a win hey?

 

[Red Rick]

Contador when he abandoned the Tour 2014 got a hug from Michael Rogers before he went into the car.

But I guess Contador just “lacks the psychology to win” and that he is not a “actual winner”

His mental tibia is so fragile.

 

[Red Rick]

I feel that some of you are blowing things out of proportions. Pinot performed really good on Critérium du Dauphiné. He would likely do the same on the Tour, but he crashed early and hurt his back.

In the end he just had some bad luck.

Now the Dauphine is really just salt in the wound.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I don't know why people are saying he should move away from being a GT rider.

He doesn't lack any of the ability to do that – he just had an illness and two injuries from crashes. Maybe with the illness you could say he can't physically last three weeks but injuries from crashes is just bad luck.

I firmly believe he would've won the Tour last year without his injury. He was the strongest climber and took time from Bernal on every mountain stage until he got hurt on stage 17. If he avoided the crosswinds in Albi he would've been a mile in front.

He's capable of a least one of the minor GTs.

Some people believe the illness and crashes show he is fragile and doesn't have the mentality to win - but look at what happened to Contador at his last 5 Tours. Sometimes a rider and a race are just not meant to be but Contador won plenty other races. I think Pinot feels a lot of pressure to perform at the Tour which causes mental and physical stress which in turn makes him more prone to crashes and illness. I think he'd better focus on one-day races, and an Italian GC calendar from now on. The Giro should be better for him in terms of weather as well. He is still young enough to collect some wins.

 

[DFA123]

Contador when he abandoned the Tour 2014 got a hug from Michael Rogers before he went into the car.

But I guess Contador just “lacks the psychology to win” and that he is not a “actual winner”

This, but not ironically.

 

[LaFlorecita]

His mental tibia is so fragile.

If he'd had a less fragile mentality his tibia would have resisted the blow. It is known.

 

[Red Rick]

Pinot has never finished a GT without Nibali in it.

He clearly needs frequent Giros through the trophy cabinet.

 

[Forever The Best]

This, but not ironically.

Lol. Now a 9(7) time GT winner lacks the winner mentality? Imagine how much he would have won had he had the winner mentality.

 

[Red Rick]

Lol. Now a 9(7) time GT winner lacks the winner mentality? Imagine how much he would have won had he had the winner mentality.

Imagine what he would've done to Lance Armstrong if he'd actually been mentally strong.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Sure, Pinot has had a lot of bad luck. But you can't help but get the feeling that when it happens time and time again, it's not just bad luck. Theoretically speaking, the more "bad luck" you have, the less likely is it that it's just bad luck.

All riders crash from time to time - you can't avoid that, and you can call that bad luck. But it's very different how the riders react to those crashes and injuries. Physically, some simply recover better than others, and I think that Pinot simply just doesn't recover very well from injuries. Nothing wrong with that, that's just his body works. Regarding his psyche, I don't think he's mentally weak per se. He has bounced back from setbacks often enough that I don't think that's the case. But he does seem very erratic in that regard - I'm not sure how to put it in English, but he seems very "swingy" mentally.

He's a great rider and he could win a lot of big races, because when he's on top of his game, there are very few riders able to match him. I just don't think that succes will come in Grand Tours - except for stage wins.

 

[CyclistAbi]

IMHO a GT winner usually owes it to his team big time. Maybe it should become obligatory, to hug.

Hug or go home.