Thomas Dekker comeback thread

[theyoungest]

I know he is inconsistent, or was in earlier GT's, but he was also very young there. It's too bad he has only ridden 2 gt's at age 27...

But according to these garmin tests, if we believe them, he has one of the highest natural recuperation values in the peloton. (see the wielerflits article with Eelco Berkhout)
So I wonder why it didn't come out that way. Not serious enough in the past or what?

Three week recuperation is hard to measure in a test, I think... but consistency in a GT is of course very much a mental issue, maybe even more than a physical one.

Also, Berkhout doesn't say how small that "select group of top cyclists" is, maybe Dekker's tests just show that he can be competitive in the pro peloton.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

According to vaughters top 5%

They would not give him the last contract if he was only an average world tour rider

 

[theyoungest]

According to vaughters top 5%

They would not give him the last contract if he was only an average world tour rider

I don't think he was even in the top echelon of Rabobank riders, in terms of test results.

 

[JV1973]

TD tests in the upper 5% of pro riders, but I have no idea how "recuperation" got put into it? We were testing for aerobic power and lactate metabolism, neither of which will have much to do on how he recovers day to day. His tests, as of now, would be similar to Zabriskie's. Excellent power vs. aerodynamic drag, good, but not excellent power vs. body mass.

If you look to 2009, when he was competing clean (at least from what I see in his blood results) He finished 4th in the Tour of Belgium, which was based on the time trial, and then finished 3rd in the Tour de Suisse TT after Cancellara and Martin, but nowhere on GC. His results in the Ardennes and other hilly races were very mediocre in 2009. In 2012, I would expect him to be a top 5-10 time trialist, and a very useful teammate in hilly stage races. Perhaps in 2013 he will begin to contest the GC in week long races with TTs in them. In think his 2006 victory in Tirreno is a good example of the maximum TD can do when very fit and racing clean. His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.

Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.

JV

 

[Havetts]

Awesome response JV. Thanks for that!

 

[will10]

Thanks for the response JV, most illuminating!

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

TD tests in the upper 5% of pro riders, but I have no idea how "recuperation" got put into it? We were testing for aerobic power and lactate metabolism, neither of which will have much to do on how he recovers day to day. His tests, as of now, would be similar to Zabriskie's. Excellent power vs. aerodynamic drag, good, but not excellent power vs. body mass.

If you look to 2009, when he was competing clean (at least from what I see in his blood results) He finished 4th in the Tour of Belgium, which was based on the time trial, and then finished 3rd in the Tour de Suisse TT after Cancellara and Martin, but nowhere on GC. His results in the Ardennes and other hilly races were very mediocre in 2009. In 2012, I would expect him to be a top 5-10 time trialist, and a very useful teammate in hilly stage races. Perhaps in 2013 he will begin to contest the GC in week long races with TTs in them. In think his 2006 victory in Tirreno is a good example of the maximum TD can do when very fit and racing clean. His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.

Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.

JV

You see little potential for growth in the hilly races?? I mean I understand that numbers can reveal much, but his potential in this area as an espoir was exceptional. Can't really make an assumption based one season (the 2009) you mentoned.

I don't expect anything outstanding, but I do believe he could potentially do reasonably well in races like the ardennes.

I've never had reason to believe he was one for the GTs, and I don't expect this to change.

 

[JV1973]

Well, I don't really know. If we look at the Ardennes in 2008, he was doped, but how was his competition? i don't know? i know he will have 8% less o2 carrying capacity than in '08, but perhaps his competition will be the same. So, we have to be patient and see. If he can win a race like Tirreno again in 2013 or 2014, I will be very pleased.

I need to make him believe in himself, work hard, and reach as far as he can, but not push the massive pressure down on him that he had before, or else we'll just end up in the same place. its tricky.

JV

 

[El Pistolero]

Well, I don't really know. If we look at the Ardennes in 2008, he was doped, but how was his competition? i don't know? i know he will have 8% less o2 carrying capacity than in '08, but perhaps his competition will be the same. So, we have to be patient and see. If he can win a race like Tirreno again in 2013 or 2014, I will be very pleased.

I need to make him believe in himself, work hard, and reach as far as he can, but not push the massive pressure down on him that he had before, or else we'll just end up in the same place. its tricky.

JV

We can safely assume that the number 2, number 5 and number 6(TD) were doped at LBL that year. The others? Only they know I guess.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

well hopefully his new enviroment will be kinder to him, I know he came out of the espoirs with a lot of hype. I think I remember in 09' reading something about him where he said he wasn't as good as people thought he was, maybe an attempt to reduce teh associated hype.

 

[jens_attacks]

His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.

prove him wrong thomas!

thanks for posting jonathan and for taking turbo diesel dekker under your wing.

 

[Kwibus]

TD tests in the upper 5% of pro riders, but I have no idea how "recuperation" got put into it? We were testing for aerobic power and lactate metabolism, neither of which will have much to do on how he recovers day to day. His tests, as of now, would be similar to Zabriskie's. Excellent power vs. aerodynamic drag, good, but not excellent power vs. body mass.

If you look to 2009, when he was competing clean (at least from what I see in his blood results) He finished 4th in the Tour of Belgium, which was based on the time trial, and then finished 3rd in the Tour de Suisse TT after Cancellara and Martin, but nowhere on GC. His results in the Ardennes and other hilly races were very mediocre in 2009. In 2012, I would expect him to be a top 5-10 time trialist, and a very useful teammate in hilly stage races. Perhaps in 2013 he will begin to contest the GC in week long races with TTs in them. In think his 2006 victory in Tirreno is a good example of the maximum TD can do when very fit and racing clean. His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.

Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.

JV

This is exactly what I expect from the new Thomas Dekker. Not what I hope... ofcourse I hope he can be as good as he was in 2007/2008.

Thanks JV. This is much appreciated.

edit: p.s. I lol if this isn't really JV. How are we supposed to be sure ?

 

[boomcie]

Well well. Look what the cat dragged in.

Thanks for the info mister V., but I’m pretty sure we already have our own Thomas Dekker specialist on this forum. The guy I’m referring to is his personal friend, I might add.

Maybe you could discuss the other riders on your team, since we don’t have any personal acquaintances of those guys on this forum.

Kind regards
boomcie

 

[theyoungest]

Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.

JV

Yeah, I guess so... although I think in 2009 he was a bit unlucky with crashes and so on, if memory serves me right. Didn't he get injured in Tirreno? I do remember him pulling on the front for Gilbert in the final of Amstel, so maybe he could have done a little better than 30th there.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Dekker_T is crying in a corner somewhere.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Fine answer JV

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

TD tests in the upper 5% of pro riders, but I have no idea how "recuperation" got put into it? We were testing for aerobic power and lactate metabolism, neither of which will have much to do on how he recovers day to day. His tests, as of now, would be similar to Zabriskie's. Excellent power vs. aerodynamic drag, good, but not excellent power vs. body mass.

If you look to 2009, when he was competing clean (at least from what I see in his blood results) He finished 4th in the Tour of Belgium, which was based on the time trial, and then finished 3rd in the Tour de Suisse TT after Cancellara and Martin, but nowhere on GC. His results in the Ardennes and other hilly races were very mediocre in 2009. In 2012, I would expect him to be a top 5-10 time trialist, and a very useful teammate in hilly stage races. Perhaps in 2013 he will begin to contest the GC in week long races with TTs in them. In think his 2006 victory in Tirreno is a good example of the maximum TD can do when very fit and racing clean. His 2007 Tour climbing, his victory in Romandie, and his 2008 Classics campaign are unrealistic, and won't be repeated.

Look at his 2009....I think he can do a bit better than 2009, but not as well as 2007. That's his level, if he decides to put in the work. it won't be as easy this time and it won't come quickly.

JV

in 2008 and 2009 thomas had serious injuries to his hip and also number of crashes. that's why he sucked back then, especially 2009 although you slowly saw him improving towards the tour, especially in suisse

 

[bicing]

Well, I don't really know. If we look at the Ardennes in 2008, he was doped, but how was his competition? i don't know? i know he will have 8% less o2 carrying capacity than in '08, but perhaps his competition will be the same. So, we have to be patient and see. If he can win a race like Tirreno again in 2013 or 2014, I will be very pleased.

I need to make him believe in himself, work hard, and reach as far as he can, but not push the massive pressure down on him that he had before, or else we'll just end up in the same place. its tricky.

JV

Jay Vee I please answer my pol.ll

 

[Arnout]

You see little potential for growth in the hilly races?? I mean I understand that numbers can reveal much, but his potential in this area as an espoir was exceptional. Can't really make an assumption based one season (the 2009) you mentoned.

I don't expect anything outstanding, but I do believe he could potentially do reasonably well in races like the ardennes.

I've never had reason to believe he was one for the GTs, and I don't expect this to change.

I'm utterly bewildered as well. How can some tests and past results in which he was obviously way younger indicate, with a surprising level of certainty, exactly where he will shine and where he won't...

JV, can I ask you 2 questions?
- How well did you expect Thor to do in the mountain stages in the Tour?
- What's the explanation for the sudden increase in performance of Bradley Wiggins in 2009? Was this to be expected in tests?

 

[theyoungest]

I'm utterly bewildered as well. How can some tests and past results in which he was obviously way younger indicate, with a surprising level of certainty, exactly where he will shine and where he won't...

JV, can I ask you 2 questions?
- How well did you expect Thor to do in the mountain stages in the Tour?
- What's the explanation for the sudden increase in performance of Bradley Wiggins in 2009? Was this to be expected in tests?

What do these guys have to do with Thomas Dekker? A sprinter who decided to work on his climbing, and a time trialist who lost 6 kilos or more?

I think Vaughters makes a fair assessment of his possibilities, anything more will be a welcome bonus, I reckon.

 

[Arnout]

What do these guys have to do with Thomas Dekker? A sprinter who decided to work on his climbing, and a time trialist who lost 6 kilos or more?

I think Vaughters makes a fair assessment of his possibilities, anything more will be a welcome bonus, I reckon.

Well that's ok but I am surprised to say the least by the certainty of his statements.

 

[hrotha]

Well that's ok but I am surprised to say the least by the certainty of his statements.

I think JV has already addressed Wiggins before. Do a search for his posts.

 

[Arnout]

I think JV has already addressed Wiggins before. Do a search for his posts.

Will do.


hjhkjkh

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Yeah especially since Dekker 2006 was a really really young Dekker. He should realistically still progress beyond that.

I don't think he will be a GT-rider either (more for stages and helpful domestique)

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

he will be a kloden type of rider imo. but hopefully mentally stronger. he shown incredible progress in climbing in 2007 before he got his hip injury