Tinkov - no doping exists in cycling

[42x16ss]

Well, there must be something, ask David Walsh...

 

[roundabout]

I guess I am just not his target audience then.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Can't even make this stuff up. I guess Santambrogio and DiLuca must have been framed.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tinkov-claims-that-doping-in-cycling-is-over

Been meaning to tell you guys: I have some ocean front property in Michigan I'm trying to unload, anyone interested?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Brailsford a good salesman? of what.

Himself and his credibility.

Just coz there's 12 of us in here not buying it, doesn't mean he's not a good salesman. Try and get a handle on his background before landing the top job at BC - makes close to no sense at all. And he's just gone from strength to strength since then. Is "head coach" but something tells me (intuition) he has no physiological knowledge of elite sport whatsoever. IMO he's a Chris Carmichael style beard. A very successful one.

Coz he can sell the myth.

 

[MarkvW]

Himself and his credibility.

Just coz there's 12 of us in here not buying it, doesn't mean he's not a good salesman. Try and get a handle on his background before landing the top job at BC - makes close to no sense at all. And he's just gone from strength to strength since then. Is "head coach" but something tells me (intuition) he has no physiological knowledge of elite sport whatsoever. IMO he's a Chris Carmichael style beard. A very successful one.

Coz he can sell the myth.

I think that he's just a super-rich guy out to have a lot of fun with a really cool toy. I also don't think he has any illusions whatsoever about the sport.

 

[veganrob]

Been meaning to tell you guys: I have some ocean front property in Michigan I'm trying to unload, anyone interested?

WTF. I've lived here most of my life and now you tell me!!!

 

[42x16ss]

I think that he's just a super-rich guy out to have a lot of fun with a really cool toy. I also don't think he has any illusions whatsoever about the sport.

That's my impression too. Tinkov raced at a pretty decent level himself when he was younger, enough to know what really happens behind the scenes at least.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Brailsford a good salesman? of what.

Snake oil. Or marginal gains. Same thing.

 

[The Hitch]

Just coz there's 12 of us in here not buying it, doesn't mean he's not a good salesman.

Once again, 80% of danish cycling fans polled said they think sky are doping. Apparently when Walsh went on Irish radio most responses to the show disagreed with him. All Spanish cycling fans I know don't believe it and I would be surprised if that wasn't the case with most (certainly with the -cycling is a totally dirty sport attitude most hold) or if that didn't extend into other traditional cycling countries. Certainly in France vayer that other lemond journo have said things and vasseur I think I heard he made a comment during the race and French tv has been pretty liberal in accusing people before.

And it's not like everyone in England believes it, loads of the doubters on here and on Twitter are English including myself.

12 people? Maybe that's the number who believe Brailsford. It's certainly not the number that believes he is full of it.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

Uh no. BG was lucky, and at the right time, using someone else's software, in the right place. Harvard level maths? Puhlease. BG is like Tinkov in a way - good sales person.

Like Dave Brailsford.

Except Tinkov has sold things, whereas DB sells ideas and theories. Not sure they could switch places, although JV has done remarkably well turning real estate sales into DB-style idea and theory sales.

Well I can't say I am overly familiar with Bill Gates.

That was my interpretation of his success having read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.

The point stands that I don't think all rich people are obnoxious although most of them are.

In the case of Tinkov he might be intelligent and shrewd but he's also obnoxious as is made obvious by his attitude to his cycling team.

 

[DirtyWorks]

That was my interpretation of his success having read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.

There's the problem. Those stories are the perfect example of the made up word "truthiness."

 

[MarkvW]

Well I can't say I am overly familiar with Bill Gates.

That was my interpretation of his success having read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.

The point stands that I don't think all rich people are obnoxious although most of them are.

In the case of Tinkov he might be intelligent and shrewd but he's also obnoxious as is made obvious by his attitude to his cycling team.

Gladwell has been criticized quite a lot lately. The criticism is worth reading.

 

[MarkvW]

Well I can't say I am overly familiar with Bill Gates.

That was my interpretation of his success having read the book "Outliers" by Malcolm Gladwell.

The point stands that I don't think all rich people are obnoxious although most of them are.

In the case of Tinkov he might be intelligent and shrewd but he's also obnoxious as is made obvious by his attitude to his cycling team.

If he pays his riders well, gives them the (legal) tools that they need to succeed, and otherwise leaves them alone, then he is a good boss. In fact, that looks to be his style.

His attitude toward doping appears that he is going to do exactly what he is required to do by the UCI and exactly no more. If he takes a more aggressive antidoping attitude, then his team is going to be less competitive.

I'm not suggesting that his approach is noble or particularly moral, but it is right in keeping with UCI norms. There's plenty of room for criticizing him on the antidoping issue, but calling him an insulting name isn't called for (by the evidence available at this time).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

If he pays his riders well, gives them the (legal) tools that they need to succeed, and otherwise leaves them alone, then he is a good boss. In fact, that looks to be his style.

His attitude toward doping appears that he is going to do exactly what he is required to do by the UCI and exactly no more. If he takes a more aggressive antidoping attitude, then his team is going to be less competitive.

I'm not suggesting that his approach is noble or particularly moral, but it is right in keeping with UCI norms. There's plenty of room for criticizing him on the antidoping issue, but calling him an insulting name isn't called for (by the evidence available at this time).

Tinkov is using rather colorful language on twitter. Think its game on.....

Note: personally believe Tinkov is a clever, but a ruthless businessman.

 

[blackcat]

Snake oil. Or marginal gains. Same thing.

knighthoods

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

If he pays his riders well, gives them the (legal) tools that they need to succeed, and otherwise leaves them alone, then he is a good boss. In fact, that looks to be his style.

His attitude toward doping appears that he is going to do exactly what he is required to do by the UCI and exactly no more. If he takes a more aggressive antidoping attitude, then his team is going to be less competitive.

I'm not suggesting that his approach is noble or particularly moral, but it is right in keeping with UCI norms. There's plenty of room for criticizing him on the antidoping issue, but calling him an insulting name isn't called for (by the evidence available at this time).

Exactly.

Here is a guy that is investing MILLIONS in cycling.

He's paying riders to ride, and we all love to see them race.

Anti doping is not up to him, or to any other team that tries to play it their favour.

Clean cycling is supposed to be up to the UCI.

Pick on those corrupt people.

 

[proffate]

There's plenty of room for criticizing him on the antidoping issue, but calling him an insulting name isn't called for (by the evidence available at this time).

What does someone have to do to deserve an insult?

 

[D-Queued]

Once again, 80% of danish cycling fans polled said they think sky are doping. Apparently when Walsh went on Irish radio most responses to the show disagreed with him. All Spanish cycling fans I know don't believe it and I would be surprised if that wasn't the case with most (certainly with the -cycling is a totally dirty sport attitude most hold) or if that didn't extend into other traditional cycling countries. Certainly in France vayer that other lemond journo have said things and vasseur I think I heard he made a comment during the race and French tv has been pretty liberal in accusing people before.

And it's not like everyone in England believes it, loads of the doubters on here and on Twitter are English including myself.

12 people? Maybe that's the number who believe Brailsford. It's certainly not the number that believes he is full of it.

Hi Hitch,

I think Wiggo was referring to the 'Clinic 12'

(i.e. the continued reference within the Clinic to JV's twitter dismissal of a dozen people on a forum that care about this stuff. In fact, aren't you potentially part of such a group?)

Dave.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Hi Hitch,

I think Wiggo was referring to the 'Clinic 12'

(i.e. the continued reference within the Clinic to JV's twitter dismissal of a dozen people on a forum that care about this stuff. In fact, aren't you potentially part of such a group?)

Dave.

I was. It was a (very subtle) jab at one of our Skyborgs, who has taken to calling them out nearly every post now.

I also detailed the sales he made: getting the BC job, with little or no coaching knowledge. Winning coach of the year (same reason). Keeping Hayles out of UCI jail. Convincing BSkyB to the tune of 40 million pounds that despite the fact UK have not had a good road rider since forever that he can win the Tour within 4 years, drawing from the same pool of pros. And then doing it.

The fact that the French are muttering (so what's new when aimed at the Brits) and the Dutch also, kinda misses the point: DB is not beholden to them, nor does he have to sell anything to them.

If Brits truly didn't believe DB you'd think he'd have a bit more scrutiny. As it is, he's getting away with it, with friggin' accolades heaped on him and his riders.

He has sold all the things griped about here: from dodgy data set timelines, to Leindeers, to miraculous transformations of both Wiggins and Froome (and others) and now JTL's values, all the while proclaiming inception of marginal gain minutae scrutiny, yadda yadda.

I am not seeing any repercussions. From where I sit here in spectator land, it looks like a done deal. Walsh paints a parody caricature of the farce in his book and ... who's calling him out?

 

[Parrulo]

You guys are going to like this one i got from Parlamento:

Esta le va a gustar a Izoard. Tinkoff ficha como miembro del staff a Bruno Cenghialta... Ariostea, Gewiss, Alessio y ... discípulo de Ferretti, Bombini y Palmiro Masciarelli.

Tinkoff signs Bruno Cenghialta which according to the poster on parlamento has some nice connections.

What do you guys think? The war seems to be on

 

[the sceptic]

What is he? a director? Seems like he has been at some teams that knew a thing or two about marginal gains.. Sounds like Tinkov means buisness.

 

[ebandit]

win win

What is he? a director? Seems like he has been at some teams that knew a thing or two about marginal gains.. Sounds like Tinkov means buisness.

it's not about the taking part.........it's about winning

Mark L

 

[DirtyWorks]

What is he? a director? Seems like he has been at some teams that knew a thing or two about marginal gains.. Sounds like Tinkov means buisness.

Seems like ASO or the UCI might not like their global business plans upset. Maybe some post-race samples going positive next spring?

 

[del1962]

You guys are going to like this one i got from Parlamento:



Tinkoff signs Bruno Cenghialta which according to the poster on parlamento has some nice connections.

What do you guys think? The war seems to be on

Will his connections be any different to Riis's?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

If the anti dope folks fails to ban Dr Leinders, I wouldn't be surprised if Tinkov hires the bloke to fix Contador's sore bottom. I see 7-9% upside.......