Todays idiot masters fattie doper

[nslckevin]

You say this, then you say THIS-



Translation-I won't bother to take offense, but I'll take offense.

Nice selective quoting. I said this:

"Re: racing against others on PEDs. I'm sure I do, but frankly it's not something I spend any time thinking about. They do or they don't. They'll beat me or they won't. Hopefully the ones who do cheat will get caught, but getting my panties all in a bunch about it is a waste of my time."

I said that I am not going to get worked up/offended/my panties in a bunch about others that might race against who dope.

I reserve the right to get my panties fully bunched up when somebody insinuates that _I_ am doping.

Are you really too stupid to see the difference?

Kevin Metcalfe

 

[nslckevin]

Hi Kevin
Nice riding in Bend. Your crit race was a cracker to watch too.
Cheers
Alex

Thanks Alex. It was nice to meet you.

 

[BroDeal]

I reserve the right to get my panties fully bunched up when somebody insinuates that _I_ am doping.

You did that to yourself when you took a general comment about the existence of doping masters and began acting like you had been personally singled out.

 

[MarkvW]

Nice selective quoting. I said this:

"Re: racing against others on PEDs. I'm sure I do, but frankly it's not something I spend any time thinking about. They do or they don't. They'll beat me or they won't. Hopefully the ones who do cheat will get caught, but getting my panties all in a bunch about it is a waste of my time."

I said that I am not going to get worked up/offended/my panties in a bunch about others that might race against who dope.

I reserve the right to get my panties fully bunched up when somebody insinuates that _I_ am doping.

Are you really too stupid to see the difference?

Kevin Metcalfe

Great to see athletes interacting with their fans on the forum!

 

[usedtobefast]

I suspect the problem is a lot smaller than people speculate in Masters.

and you would be wrong,sorry.

 

[Bertie]

Can you support that claim? My claim is racing 5 years in Masters (40-49) and never once seeing any evidence of it, or suspecting anyone else of it. Speaking as I find.

 

[Berzin]

Here is some more selective quoting-

I reserve the right to get my panties fully bunched up when somebody insinuates that _I_ am doping.

Are you really too stupid to see the difference?

"Roid rage much there, pal? Certainly sounds like it.

 

[Oldman]

Here is some more selective quoting-



"Roid rage much there, pal? Certainly sounds like it.

Listen-I never implied Kevin had a problem so he shouldn't get sensitive. He's been consistently good for some time. Bubba Melcher, too. I raced against these guys and that's not the peakiness that was telling. People have thought Thurlow was something other than a gifted mutant and he's been good for decades. There are guys that are just better. Kevin-keep it clean and ignore anyone that questions your integrity; I've dealt with it for years although I don't resemble the dude from Florida. Some people don't like getting beat. You also aren't naive so the problem still gets discussion.

 

[chase196126]

Here is some more selective quoting-



"Roid rage much there, pal? Certainly sounds like it.

Berzin,

Your postings are generally of high quality and I respect them, but this goes a little far. Having someone make a comment about how many suspicious performances happened at nationals without specifying whom leaves a lot open to speculation. The general feeling here in the clinic is that masters who win at nationals are highly suspect. Kevin is willing to put his name on the net to defend the fact that he is clean.

I can understand his frustration. Too many posters here assume that all Pro cyclists are doping, or to get a certain result doping is required. Being a domestic pro who completes 100% clean I can tell you this attitude gets tiresome rather quickly. Even if a comment is not directed at me, overarching statements about "most" or "all" pros being on the juice start to feel a bit personal over time.

Being realistic about the condition of the sport is important, but dont allow yourself to be so jaded that you ignore the fact that there are many, many riders out there competing clean.

Chase Pinkham

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

berzin,

your postings are generally of high quality and i respect them, but this goes a little far. Having someone make a comment about how many suspicious performances happened at nationals without specifying whom leaves a lot open to speculation. The general feeling here in the clinic is that masters who win at nationals are highly suspect. Kevin is willing to put his name on the net to defend the fact that he is clean.

I can understand his frustration. Too many posters here assume that all pro cyclists are doping, or to get a certain result doping is required. Being a domestic pro who completes 100% clean i can tell you this attitude gets tiresome rather quickly. Even if a comment is not directed at me, overarching statements about "most" or "all" pros being on the juice start to feel a bit personal over time.

Being realistic about the condition of the sport is important, but dont allow yourself to be so jaded that you ignore the fact that there are many, many riders out there competing clean.

Chase pinkham

+ 1

.......

 

[Berzin]

Berzin,

Your postings are generally of high quality and I respect them, but this goes a little far. Having someone make a comment about how many suspicious performances happened at nationals without specifying whom leaves a lot open to speculation. The general feeling here in the clinic is that masters who win at nationals are highly suspect. Kevin is willing to put his name on the net to defend the fact that he is clean.

I can understand his frustration. Too many posters here assume that all Pro cyclists are doping, or to get a certain result doping is required. Being a domestic pro who completes 100% clean I can tell you this attitude gets tiresome rather quickly. Even if a comment is not directed at me, overarching statements about "most" or "all" pros being on the juice start to feel a bit personal over time.

Being realistic about the condition of the sport is important, but don't allow yourself to be so jaded that you ignore the fact that there are many, many riders out there competing clean.

Chase Pinkham

Chase, your argument is articulate and well-thought out.

However, if Kevin Metcalfe's frustration is with people being suspicious about the performances in his age category, I think it is disingenuous to take it out on the doubters.

Why call anyone stupid, or call people out for not using their real names on a public forum? That seems childish, and it exhibits a lack of self-control that seems odd given the topic of conversation.

The ones who are doing the damage are the ones who dope. And let me say for the record if a rider doesn't know anyone in his age category that dopes, that's fine.

But to use ignorance of this sub-culture to suggest that "I see no doping, therefore no doping exists", is a fallacy meant to put a halt to a debate that needs to take place.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

You refuse to acknowledge the simple observation that dopers are notoriously peaky. Spectacular results at important events, then... right back into the local pack fodder. Clean riders tend to have very consistent results over time.

Hmmm, but over what time period do you mean?

Considering that threshold power varies by 10% in a season for most racers typically. That 10% is huge and would mean significantly different race form. From pack fodder to winner is definitely possible in that range.

 

[spetsa]

Berzin,

Your postings are generally of high quality and I respect them, but this goes a little far. Having someone make a comment about how many suspicious performances happened at nationals without specifying whom leaves a lot open to speculation. The general feeling here in the clinic is that masters who win at nationals are highly suspect. Kevin is willing to put his name on the net to defend the fact that he is clean.

I can understand his frustration. Too many posters here assume that all Pro cyclists are doping, or to get a certain result doping is required. Being a domestic pro who completes 100% clean I can tell you this attitude gets tiresome rather quickly. Even if a comment is not directed at me, overarching statements about "most" or "all" pros being on the juice start to feel a bit personal over time.

Being realistic about the condition of the sport is important, but dont allow yourself to be so jaded that you ignore the fact that there are many, many riders out there competing clean.

Chase Pinkham

I am glad that you feel offended that someone would consider the possiblility of a cyclist, pro or not, to be doping, but get used to it. Your predecessors, including the federation which issues your liscence, left you with a sport that is a mess and you will have to grow up and deal with it. Berzin made very accurate statements about drug testing in cycling and specifically here in the US. A quick check of USADA testing shows that you were not tested in or out of competition once this past year. It is hard for anyone outside of the sport to accept blanket statements from people like yourself, who's livelihood is based on sponsorship that is highly influenced by public perception of what is going on in pro cycling.
I have 20 years and more than 1000 days of pro racing on you, and I gaurantee that my perception of the sport is more accurate than yours at this point. You say you see nothing. Good for you. I saw nothing either racing domestically, not a teammate or friend, however there have been what, 4 guys that ever held a UCI liscence that have been outed on Papp's list and I raced against 2 and with 1. I am sure that as the list grows so will the number of teammates and friends that I find out to have played both sides of the game. I am sure as time goes by you will relaize the same.
Good luck, train hard and be honest with yourself, your loved ones and friends. It is a beautiful sport, with some ugly people involved on all levels, even the fans. It is your job to deal with it.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I am glad that you feel offended that someone would consider the possiblility of a cyclist, pro or not, to be doping, but get used to it. Your predecessors, including the federation which issues your liscence, left you with a sport that is a mess and you will have to grow up and deal with it. Berzin made very accurate statements about drug testing in cycling and specifically here in the US. A quick check of USADA testing shows that you were not tested in or out of competition once this past year. It is hard for anyone outside of the sport to accept blanket statements from people like yourself, who's livelihood is based on sponsorship that is highly influenced by public perception of what is going on in pro cycling.
I have 20 years and more than 1000 days of pro racing on you, and I gaurantee that my perception of the sport is more accurate than yours at this point. You say you see nothing. Good for you. I saw nothing either racing domestically, not a teammate or friend, however there have been what, 4 guys that ever held a UCI liscence that have been outed on Papp's list and I raced against 2 and with 1. I am sure that as the list grows so will the number of teammates and friends that I find out to have played both sides of the game. I am sure as time goes by you will relaize the same.
Good luck, train hard and be honest with yourself, your loved ones and friends. It is a beautiful sport, with some ugly people involved on all levels, even the fans. It is your job to deal with it.

Well, yes & no.

You all appear at cross purposes - the poster you responded to mentioned Masters Winners, not in general (but the post before that was in general not at the winners).

Serious question - as a cyclist I am sure that you have been accused of doping (even by way of humour) - has there ever been a time when you felt offended?

To the highlighted - its their 'job' to cycle.
You quite rightly point the finger of blame on the authorities who have let things get this bad - but I fully understand Kevin and other cyclists taking exception to be accused of doping (which to be fair Oldman did not say).

I am actually delighted to read passionate and even angry responses from the Masters - chapeau to you all.

 

[spetsa]

Well, yes & no.

You all appear at cross purposes - the poster you responded to mentioned Masters Winners, not in general (but the post before that was in general not at the winners).

Serious question - as a cyclist I am sure that you have been accused of doping (even by way of humour) - has there ever been a time when you felt offended?
To the highlighted - its their 'job' to cycle.
You quite rightly point the finger of blame on the authorities who have let things get this bad - but I fully understand Kevin and other cyclists taking exception to be accused of doping (which to be fair Oldman did not say).

I am actually delighted to read passionate and even angry responses from the Masters - chapeau to you all.

Offended by people accusing me or others of doping? No. Offended that others doped and cheated me out of a better result? Not really. Offended that teams allowed riders that they knew had tested positive, to keep racing for months until the UCI or USAC pulled thier liscence? HELL YES!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Offended by people accusing me or others of doping? No. Offended that others doped and cheated me out of a better result? Not really. Offended that teams allowed riders that they knew had tested positive, to keep racing for months until the UCI or USAC pulled thier liscence? HELL YES!

Fair enough - I would be yes (to the me part) and no to the others - and then not really and a little peed off.

 

[chase196126]

I am glad that you feel offended that someone would consider the possiblility of a cyclist, pro or not, to be doping, but get used to it. Your predecessors, including the federation which issues your liscence, left you with a sport that is a mess and you will have to grow up and deal with it. Berzin made very accurate statements about drug testing in cycling and specifically here in the US. A quick check of USADA testing shows that you were not tested in or out of competition once this past year. It is hard for anyone outside of the sport to accept blanket statements from people like yourself, who's livelihood is based on sponsorship that is highly influenced by public perception of what is going on in pro cycling.
I have 20 years and more than 1000 days of pro racing on you, and I gaurantee that my perception of the sport is more accurate than yours at this point. You say you see nothing. Good for you. I saw nothing either racing domestically, not a teammate or friend, however there have been what, 4 guys that ever held a UCI liscence that have been outed on Papp's list and I raced against 2 and with 1. I am sure that as the list grows so will the number of teammates and friends that I find out to have played both sides of the game. I am sure as time goes by you will relaize the same.
Good luck, train hard and be honest with yourself, your loved ones and friends. It is a beautiful sport, with some ugly people involved on all levels, even the fans. It is your job to deal with it.

Spetsa,

I don't attempt to be naive about the state of doping in the sport, and I am not in any way claiming that doping is not still happening.

I raced with Dave Clinger locally in 2009 and watched his amazing "transformation" from 50 pounds overweight to the leanest rider in Utah (in 4ish months...). I went from dropping him on 10 minute climbs to being behind him in every mountain stage of Tour of Utah. I don't have a lot of time in the sport yet, but already I have had someone close to home busted (twice).

I understand and can deal with the fact that cycling will always carry a cloud over it from the doping issues in the past, but I feel that more people (especially in the clinic) should remind themselves that there are many riders trying to turn a page in the sport.

I know that I cant change public opinion, but I can do my part by competing clean and speaking out in support of clean cycling.

Chase Pinkham

P.S. On the USADA testing, I was actually tested 3 times out of comp this year. It was part of the ToCA pre race testing for all potential athletes. Im not sure why its not showing up on the USADA website. Possibly because it was contract testing from Amgen?

 

[Race Radio]

I agree that some areas of the sport is much cleaner then the past. Certainly the situation on the ProTour level has improved, but will continued to get hammered as more info on the last 20 years is exposed.

Doping on the amateur level is rampant. In the US "longevity" doctors have found eager customers in the masters level. In Europe GF's and Sportif's see some of the most absurd levels of performance in the sport. Note that there have recently been multiple large busts in Spain, Italy, France and Belgium. The primary customers of these rings were amateurs.

 

[slowoldman]

It is sad and pathetic what ego can do to people. Racing should be a hobby for people my age (46) and I can't comprehend why people can't just enjoy it for what it is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you dope to compete against a bunch of old guys you are pitiful.

 

[BotanyBay]

It is sad and pathetic what ego can do to people. Racing should be a hobby for people my age (46) and I can't comprehend why people can't just enjoy it for what it is. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you dope to compete against a bunch of old guys you are pitiful.

I took over a decade off between my final years as a flat-broke senior and re-entering as a 35 year old with a solid off-bike career. The sport that I left was entirely different when I came back. I came to the conclusion that bike racing had become the chosen sport of extreme narccissism. Not fun anymore. Too many a-type personalities with their top-of-the-line (HELOC-mortgaged) bikes, motivational tattoos and questionable ethics. I'd go out training and have to deal with the random idiots whose only goal in life was to pass me. Bike racing used to be a friendly sport. You'd see people out and about, and they'd wave, nod, etc. Not anymore. Every other person on the road is a potential TDF rival of theirs.

So I sold the equipment and bought a beach cruiser.

 

[bobbins]

I took over a decade off between my final years as a flat-broke senior and re-entering as a 35 year old with a solid off-bike career. The sport that I left was entirely different when I came back. I came to the conclusion that bike racing had become the chosen sport of extreme narccissism. Not fun anymore. Too many a-type personalities with their top-of-the-line (HELOC-mortgaged) bikes, motivational tattoos and questionable ethics. I'd go out training and have to deal with the random idiots whose only goal in life was to pass me. Bike racing used to be a friendly sport. You'd see people out and about, and they'd wave, nod, etc. Not anymore. Every other person on the road is a potential TDF rival of theirs.

So I sold the equipment and bought a beach cruiser.

Totally agree. Cycling has changed due to the increase in participants who think that every ride is a race, a sportive is a world title and that form and fitness can be bought.

They all want an easy way to get fit and faster and don't care how they do it.

When I raced in the 90s we were all in it together, nowadays any advantage is taken. If someone can get rid of a competitor by not shouting out a car on the course or a dangerous obstacle, they will take that chance. Doping is nothing, just another way of proving how good they are.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Chase, your argument is articulate and well-thought out.

However, if Kevin Metcalfe's frustration is with people being suspicious about the performances in his age category, I think it is disingenuous to take it out on the doubters.

Why call anyone stupid, or call people out for not using their real names on a public forum? That seems childish, and it exhibits a lack of self-control that seems odd given the topic of conversation.

The ones who are doing the damage are the ones who dope. And let me say for the record if a rider doesn't know anyone in his age category that dopes, that's fine.

But to use ignorance of this sub-culture to suggest that "I see no doping, therefore no doping exists", is a fallacy meant to put a halt to a debate that needs to take place.

I agree with your post 100%.

Side note. I belonged to a training group (running) and I had made a comment regarding a fellow competitor (basically I was suspicious of his results over a LONG period of time). I was roasted for even questioning the person. Guess what...over time it was and now is a KNOWN FACT dude was doped. WHO knew.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I took over a decade off between my final years as a flat-broke senior and re-entering as a 35 year old with a solid off-bike career. The sport that I left was entirely different when I came back. I came to the conclusion that bike racing had become the chosen sport of extreme narccissism. Not fun anymore. Too many a-type personalities with their top-of-the-line (HELOC-mortgaged) bikes, motivational tattoos and questionable ethics. I'd go out training and have to deal with the random idiots whose only goal in life was to pass me. Bike racing used to be a friendly sport. You'd see people out and about, and they'd wave, nod, etc. Not anymore. Every other person on the road is a potential TDF rival of theirs.

So I sold the equipment and bought a beach cruiser.

I just had the same conversation 45 minutes ago here at my office gym.

This 15hour “ironman” just got through trying to tell me how great his bike is. Also just how he can MAP his ride and go up against the virtual whatever on the losestrong site something or another. I asked him did he go on long rides over the weekend as a group and he said he did not like riding in groups because he wanted to “drop the hammer”. LMAO He is riding max pace around 16 mph for a little 50mile training ride but he can “drop the hammer”.

Nice Beach cruiser idea! Thank god you did not say you bought a recumbent or whatever the hell that goof ball crap is.

 

[Deagol]

I took over a decade off between my final years as a flat-broke senior and re-entering as a 35 year old with a solid off-bike career. The sport that I left was entirely different when I came back. I came to the conclusion that bike racing had become the chosen sport of extreme narccissism. Not fun anymore. Too many a-type personalities with their top-of-the-line (HELOC-mortgaged) bikes, motivational tattoos and questionable ethics. I'd go out training and have to deal with the random idiots whose only goal in life was to pass me. Bike racing used to be a friendly sport. You'd see people out and about, and they'd wave, nod, etc. Not anymore. Every other person on the road is a potential TDF rival of theirs.
.....

My experience mirrors this. I could not have said it better. This is my first year not racing since about 2002/2003, and I don't miss it (I do miss certain aspects of it). I'm not selling my bikes, though

 

[spetsa]

I just had the same conversation 45 minutes ago here at my office gym.

This 15hour “ironman” just got through trying to tell me how great his bike is. Also just how he can MAP his ride and go up against the virtual whatever on the losestrong site something or another. I asked him did he go on long rides over the weekend as a group and he said he did not like riding in groups because he wanted to “drop the hammer”. LMAO He is riding max pace around 16 mph for a little 50mile training ride but he can “drop the hammer”.

Nice Beach cruiser idea! Thank god you did not say you bought a recumbent or whatever the hell that goof ball crap is.

That is funny, just last evening while the wife and I were out for dinner and a couple Left Hands minding our own business a "cycling community aquaintance" approached me at the bar to tell me about his recent "race" where he broke 15 hours and attributed it to the new gels that he used. I looked at him and said "15 hours? If I didn't drown, didn't get bored riding my bike for six hours and could mentally withstand walking a marathon, I may have beaten you." He laughed like I was joking. I have been wanting to say the forever. It was almost therapuetic. I hope he didn't cry when he actually did the math. I am not really an a$$hole, it was the beer. Good beer.