Tom Danielson

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

It was a rhetorical question, not serious on my part. I was just pointing out to Benotti that he can't have it both ways. Riders are %100 doped, or dopers cheat clean riders. Can't be both.

Dan, you are not here to bring rationale into the debate...

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

You think cheating people is not serious?

I do think it is serious.

I don't compare sporting fraud to child sex slavery, homelessness, climate change or many of the other serious issues affecting the world and its citizens. This is a cycling forum and a doping subforum.

Yes, let's reflect about a guy who would never be at this level if not for his cheating. Most of his adult life he has been cheating and keeping clean riders out of a chance at a career in the sport. It was Danielsons choice to cheat.
That Gaimon calls a known cheater a friend and a guy who didn't tell all about his doping, only the blood doping and that was by Vaughters, so Danielson let Vaughters do it. Hardly presents himslef as a guy who truly regretted his doping. Nah I am happy at the level of 'indignation' i am giving Danielson.

Why get personal with people you don't know?

How do you know what people do or dont do with their time?

Plenty of ways to help others and also make a few comments on a forum.

First off, I want to point out that I'm in no way defending TD or condoning doping in the pro peloton.

Benotti, you keep saying Tom Danielson could not possibly be a pro if it wasn't for doping, but you have absolutely no proof at all to back that up. You have no idea if he had the talent to make it as a pro, nor do you for most other riders. You could say the same thing about almost every single rider in the pro peloton.

Move on already.

Question: If everyone in the World Tour is doping as you've said in public many times, who's Tom Danielson cheating?

http://stevetilford.com/2012/09/06/vaughters-outs-danielson/

This pretty much spells out what level Danielson is at without dope. Comments back it up too.

Here's a comment from a guy on Tilford's recent blog about Danielson

Patrick Fetzer
August 4, 2015 at 9:31 am

Years ago, I made the “big time” and was in the Redlands Stage Race…the big race ‘real pros’ came to town to race in.

Chris Horner, Nathan O’Neil & some rookie named Tom Danielson waxed everyone, every day. My pal was at the summit of the ‘mountain top’ finish of Oak Glen. Not being a rider, he was out there to cheer me on and try out his new video camera…on the drive home he couldn’t stop laughing about how far ahead these three were, and how they were actually arguing about who would win. Made me think of Gwiss…anyway, later when he showed me the video they were chatting…like it was nothing. They blew everyone away….like it was a training ride. I was completely demoralized watching the video and then learning I lost 15 minutes on a 10k climb to these guys.

We know about O’Neil’s transgressions, he may have been chased out of Europe so he came here; we have strong speculation about Horner and now this…10+ years later. Fags.

My teammates and I trained our asses off, we were good, we were ready….but not for those ‘super-charged’ tools who turned the race into a farce. It was the “Saturn Show” and looking back I’m embarrassed I took so much time and effort out of my life and away from my family only to be smacked down by a bunch of frauds…..stoopid sport!

He got cheated.

Yes for me everyone in the sport riding at WT level is doping. Teams have so much pressure that they are not going to hire guys who wont do what is needed to try get wins, to keep sponsors happy. Doping is an integral part of that.

You don't walk into an office at 21 years of age and say i wanna be a pro cyclist where do i sign up. You pretty much have been dedicating you spare time to riding a bike since a teenager and the guys that say no as teenagers to PEDS are the guys who are being cheated. They dont get to WT level. They have made their decisions not to dope way before then. Maybe some are good enough to race clean at levels below WT, but what team will pick a guy who says no to dope when it appears there are many behind him who will say yes to dope and win a GT for a team.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

It was a rhetorical question, not serious on my part. I was just pointing out to Benotti that he can't have it both ways. Riders are %100 doped, or dopers cheat clean riders. Can't be both.

Dan, you are not here to bring rationale into the debate...

Touché! Carry on then...

 

[happytramp]

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

keeping clean riders out of a chance at a career in the sport. .

Question: If everyone in the World Tour is doping as you've said in public many times, who's Tom Danielson cheating?

I'll save you some time waiting for Benotti's answer (not that I agree with Benotti's views): He was cheating the clean guys who would have had a chance becoming pro if only the current generation of cheaters would not have cheated.

It was a rhetorical question, not serious on my part. I was just pointing out to Benotti that he can't have it both ways. Riders are %100 doped, or dopers cheat clean riders. Can't be both.

Tommy D dopes to win US races. That in and of itself is jacked up. Sure, maybe he'll bump Horner down a place probably more than half of the NRC is clean. I mean, a clean pro got to wonder, where does one go to find a clean race?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

keeping clean riders out of a chance at a career in the sport. .

Question: If everyone in the World Tour is doping as you've said in public many times, who's Tom Danielson cheating?

I'll save you some time waiting for Benotti's answer (not that I agree with Benotti's views): He was cheating the clean guys who would have had a chance becoming pro if only the current generation of cheaters would not have cheated.

It was a rhetorical question, not serious on my part. I was just pointing out to Benotti that he can't have it both ways. Riders are %100 doped, or dopers cheat clean riders. Can't be both.

Actually I can. The guys who chose not to dope are not riding in WT. Simples. They got cheated. Graeme Obree would probably have a monument win some classics and a stage or 3 to his name if the sport was clean. He got cheated out of the opportunity to try and achieve that.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

He got cheated.

Yes, he most certainly did.

Thanks for pulling that up Benotti!

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

keeping clean riders out of a chance at a career in the sport. .

Question: If everyone in the World Tour is doping as you've said in public many times, who's Tom Danielson cheating?

I'll save you some time waiting for Benotti's answer (not that I agree with Benotti's views): He was cheating the clean guys who would have had a chance becoming pro if only the current generation of cheaters would not have cheated.

It was a rhetorical question, not serious on my part. I was just pointing out to Benotti that he can't have it both ways. Riders are %100 doped, or dopers cheat clean riders. Can't be both.

Tommy D dopes to win US races. That in and of itself is jacked up. Sure, maybe he'll bump Horner down a place probably more than half of the NRC is clean. I mean, a clean pro got to wonder, where does one go to find a clean race?

SoCal Masters race?

 

[pastronef]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

Guess he was there when Tommy supposedly showed up at trainingcamp fully doped up?

 

[pastronef]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

Guess he was there when Tommy supposedly showed up at trainingcamp fully doped up?

never heard of that.
or is it a joke?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

Guess he was there when Tommy supposedly showed up at trainingcamp fully doped up?

never heard of that.
or is it a joke?

It was a comment on a Steve Tilford blog post.

I asked JV about it here and he mocked me and then when others also asked he finally denied it.

 

[pastronef]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

Guess he was there when Tommy supposedly showed up at trainingcamp fully doped up?

never heard of that.
or is it a joke?

It was a comment on a Steve Tilford blog post.

I asked JV about it here and he mocked me and then when others also asked he finally denied it.

ok thanks, I was curious about from where/what D.Pate attitude "not pulling punches and not shutting up like most of the pro riders" came from, related to TD

 

[pmcg76]

D.Pate is not pulling punches

anyone can remember me about any past problems between Danielson and Pate?

Guess he was there when Tommy supposedly showed up at trainingcamp fully doped up?

never heard of that.
or is it a joke?

It was a comment on a Steve Tilford blog post.

I asked JV about it here and he mocked me and then when others also asked he finally denied it.

ok thanks, I was curious about from where/what D.Pate attitude "not pulling punches and not shutting up like most of the pro riders" came from, related to TD

There was a rumour at some point that TD showed up at the first proper Slipstream training camp with dope. This allegedly was brought to the attention of JV who then gave a team-talk stating the he knew that a certain rider had drugs and had better ditch them or be out of a job. That is the general gist of the rumour.

I think there were quite a few Slipstream riders who were not exactly thrilled with the direction the team went by signing ex-Postal riders for 2008, especially those who lost their places on team. Pate left in 2010 and was apparently not happy with things at the team, clearly related to certain people on the team.

How ironic that people who vilify SKY are now quoting a SKY rider slamming TD. Funny how that works.

For the record I think Pate is a clean pro.

 

[pastronef]

There was a rumour at some point that TD showed up at the first proper Slipstream training camp with dope. This allegedly was brought to the attention of JV who then gave a team-talk stating the he knew that a certain rider had drugs and had better ditch them or be out of a job. That is the general gist of the rumour.

I think there were quite a few Slipstream riders who were not exactly thrilled with the direction the team went by signing ex-Postal riders for 2008, especially those who lost their places on team. Pate left in 2010 and was apparently not happy with things at the team, clearly related to certain people on the team.

How ironic that people who vilify SKY are now quoting a SKY rider slamming TD. Funny how that works.

For the record I think Pate is a clean pro.

I like that very much

 

[MacRoadie]

Re: Re:

SoCal Masters race?

He said clean...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Ah the irony.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

8 years to life is the range available as the standard sanction.

The 18 months he got reduced for co-operation would be tacked on for sure, so probably 9.5 years is the minimum he is facing.

As far as I can tell, a life ban is only available as an option for a third anti-doping code violation, or in instances of serious breaches of section 2.7 (trafficking) or 2.8 (administering to an athlete).

I'm assuming this is a 2nd anti-doping violation and falls under 2.1 (Presence of a Prohibited Substance or its Metabolites or Markers in an Athlete’s Sample) and the maximum sanction for a first offence 2.1 violation is 4 years, with reduction for various excuses possible.

So I suppose perhaps it depends on whether the original sanction was for a single breach or more.

If confirmed and there is no sanction reduction under 10.6, then 10.7 applies:

10.7 Multiple Violations
10.7.1 For an athlete or other Person’s second anti- doping rule violation, the period of Ineligibility shall be the greater of:
(a) six months;
(b) one-half of the period of Ineligibility imposed for the first anti-doping rule violation without taking into account any reduction under Article 10.6; or
(c) twice the period of Ineligibility otherwise applicable to the second anti-doping rule violation treated as if it were a first violation, without taking into account any reduction under Article 10.6.
The period of Ineligibility established above may then be further reduced by the application of Article 10.6.

The sanction for first offence under 2.1 is as follows:

10.2 Ineligibility for Presence, Use or Attempted Use or Possession of a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method
The period of Ineligibility for a violation of Article 2.1, 2.2 or 2.6 shall be as follows, subject to potential reduction or suspension pursuant to Article 10.4, 10.5 or 10.6:
The period of Ineligibility shall be four years where:
10.2.1.1 The anti-doping rule violation does not involve a Specified Substance, unless the athlete or other Person can establish that the anti-doping rule violation was not intentional.
10.2.1.2 The anti-doping rule violation involves a Specified Substance and the anti-doping organization can establish that the anti- doping rule violation was intentional.

My prediction is TD will get off. Too many precedents.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

So does every supermarket, in the produce section.

Like...

 

[filipo]

Was out of the country and thus only getting this news now, but:

*** YES. Like Christmas in August.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

How ironic that people who vilify SKY are now quoting a SKY rider slamming TD. Funny how that works.

People must hate every rider on Sky when they criticize them: not working like that pmcg, but you know that.

 

[pmcg76]

Re:

Ah the irony.

I think you should use your mad googling skillz to look up the word irony cos you clearly don't understand what it means.

 

[pmcg76]

How ironic that people who vilify SKY are now quoting a SKY rider slamming TD. Funny how that works.

People must hate every rider on Sky when they criticize them: not working like that pmcg, but you know that.

Well I am sure if DPate said Froome were clean there would be a different reaction but you know that of course.

 

[Ferminal]

Good posts.

 

[hrotha]

Well I am sure if DPate said Froome were clean there would be a different reaction but you know that of course.

You mean people won't automatically believe everything Danny Pate says, but will judge each statement on its own merits? I agree.