Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[glassmoon]

Re:

If it doesn't happen again, he is the most likely winner. One thing is the time loss, much worse is it that both Nibali and Quintana (lol, probably not) now smell blood and are ready to goo all in for the win.

oh, they for sure smell something. not sure it's blood though

 

[lenric]

Thread's name should be changed to "Tom Poopulin discussion thread".

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

If it doesn't happen again, he is the most likely winner. One thing is the time loss, much worse is it that both Nibali and Quintana (lol, probably not) now smell blood and are ready to goo all in for the win.

Yeah, Quintana will just roll around waiting to lose like he did in last year's Vuelta probably.
.. oh wait.

 

[Red Rick]

2016 vuelta as proof of quintana's aggression is hugely confounded. He initiated agression on the mtf's and a desperation move was made by contador before quintana was even considering something

 

[Valv.Piti]

Attributing it 100% to Contador, which you are doing, is absolutely wrong. But no reason to beat a dead horse. Nairo is a killer.

 

[Red Rick]

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

 

[KGB]

When he had to stop and take a dump last year in the Tour, he ended up winning the next day. If I remember correctly that is.

Must be really big and heavy dump lightening him for rest of the week.Tommy slowly but surely become Quintana's nightmare.Poor little Colombian.

 

[GenericBoonenFan]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin said he's had it before. Suggested his intestines get hypoxic during intense exercise at altitude, causing him to have problems

That could well be a problem then for the rest of this week.

It also suggests that other riders shouldn't really be obliged to wait for him. They wouldn't wait for someone whose threshold dropped 30w more than everyone else because of altitude after all.

I'm no expert on the subject, but I think you could fix that with a sort of clyster

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

Yes, and you are basically saying it was a 100% Contador/Saxo initiation and 0% Quintana/Movistar. And I very much disagree on that one.

 

[BullsFan22]

I think Dumoulin is strong mentally, so the big question will be the physical aspect. How much did it take out of him to limit the losses after he got back on his bike? He rode the entire climb and descent on his own, while just about every other main GC hope was riding in smaller groups, or at least being able to feed of each other relatively well, in particular the Nibali/Quintana/Zakarin/Pozzovivo group. Of course they'll be tired, but they were feeding of each other and taking turns, Dumoulin had to ride his own tempo and didn't have anyone to work with.

If his 'pooping' issues are behind him and he measured his efforts well today (despite the nature break) and is relatively fresh for the rest of the Giro, then I think he is still the favorite to win this. He said that he was good enough to stay with Nibali and Quintana, but of course we will never know. I'd like to believe him and I also would like to believe he won't have any other issues.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

Yes, and you are basically saying it was a 100% Contador/Saxo initiation and 0% Quintana/Movistar. And I very much disagree on that one.

Exactly. Movistar could easily have just shut Contador down - the ball was in their court. Insteadthey went with the more aggressive option; no way the fireworks would have happened on that stage had Quintana not given them the go ahead.

 

[Forever The Best]

"I don't really know what happened in the front. I heard that Movistar waited a little but the race was on and they were chasing riders like Steven Kruijswijk. I can't blame them for wanting to chase him. You can't give Kruijswijk three minutes; it's was a difficult situation."
https://twitter.com/tom_dumoulin/status/867078688885661696
Liked Tom D even more after these statements.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

Yes, and you are basically saying it was a 100% Contador/Saxo initiation and 0% Quintana/Movistar. And I very much disagree on that one.

Exactly. Movistar could easily have just shut Contador down - the ball was in their court. Insteadthey went with the more aggressive option; no way the fireworks would have happened on that stage had Quintana not given them the go ahead.

the ball was in their court. a ball that was handed to them. who's gonna hand it to them this time? Or are they ready to take it themselves?

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

Yes, and you are basically saying it was a 100% Contador/Saxo initiation and 0% Quintana/Movistar. And I very much disagree on that one.

Exactly. Movistar could easily have just shut Contador down - the ball was in their court. Insteadthey went with the more aggressive option; no way the fireworks would have happened on that stage had Quintana not given them the go ahead.

the ball was in their court. a ball that was handed to them. who's gonna hand it to them this time? Or are they ready to take it themselves?

Well, they don't need to initiate any moves. Just mark Nibali, try to take a few seconds on him on the MTF, and Quintana wins the Giro. These last four stages will be attritional, they're too hard for fireworks.

Dumoulin is obviously done now. Zero chance he can win this race after the effort he had to put in today, his struggles with altitude and doubts about his last week form. He's fighting with Zakarin and Pozzovivo now for a first top 5 finish.

 

[Netserk]

Hard? Tomorrow is easy, the day after is short and with no HC climb, nor any steep cat 1, the day after is a Vuelta stage and finally we have the easiest Grappa before a 7% cat 1 climb.

 

[lenric]

Not so obvious. Tomorrow nothing will happen.
And Quintana isn't 100%, so it's doubtful that he can take much time on the next two MTF.
Nibali, on the other hand, is a different issue.

And there's still a flat ITT.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Hard? Tomorrow is easy, the day after is short and with no HC climb, nor any steep cat 1, the day after is a Vuelta stage and finally we have the easiest Grappa before a 7% cat 1 climb.

That's just ridiculous. It's five high mountain stages in a row. Each with over 3000m of climbing and several of them over 200km long. It's a ridiculously hard finish to a GT.

Tomorrow alone is 220km with well over 3500m of climbing. It's going to be over six hours in the saddle. And you call that easy?

 

[Gigs_98]

Before today I thought that tomorrows stage might actually be used for an Formigal like ambush. But now that Dumoulin has already lost a lot of time I don't think anything will happen. Still if the stage is fast the first two climbs could hurt him.

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

Hard? Tomorrow is easy, the day after is short and with no HC climb, nor any steep cat 1, the day after is a Vuelta stage and finally we have the easiest Grappa before a 7% cat 1 climb.

That's just ridiculous. It's five high mountain stages in a row. Each with over 3000m of climbing and several of them over 200km long. It's a ridiculously hard finish to a GT.

Tomorrow alone is 220km with well over 3500m of climbing. It's going to be over six hours in the saddle. And you call that easy?

Tomorrow is similar to Tirano '11. A day for the gc riders to relax.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Well, they don't need to initiate any moves. Just mark Nibali, try to take a few seconds on him on the MTF, and Quintana wins the Giro. These last four stages will be attritional, they're too hard for fireworks.

As we learned again today, every stage is too something for fireworks when Quintana and Movistar are in the hunt for a GT win. Too hard, too easy, too attritional, not attritional enough, too this, too that, always too something. I've cheered for Quintana against Froome every time, but there comes a time when even those of us with a bias in favour of Quintana have to accept that there is more spirit of adventure in a single hair on the ballsack of a Froome or a Contador or a Nibal than there is in Nairo's whole body.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Hard? Tomorrow is easy, the day after is short and with no HC climb, nor any steep cat 1, the day after is a Vuelta stage and finally we have the easiest Grappa before a 7% cat 1 climb.

That's just ridiculous. It's five high mountain stages in a row. Each with over 3000m of climbing and several of them over 200km long. It's a ridiculously hard finish to a GT.

Tomorrow alone is 220km with well over 3500m of climbing. It's going to be over six hours in the saddle. And you call that easy?

Tomorrow is similar to Tirano '11. A day for the gc riders to relax.

It seems as though you are not comprehending the physiological demands of a stage like this. Most of the day is uphill, so riders will be working for long periods even in the peloton. They'll be burning around 6000 calories on a day like this even soft-pedalled - it's not like a flat stage where they might only burn 3000 calories for a similar length stage. That kind of energy turnover puts a huge strain on the body and does all kind of things to the muscles, digestive system and immune response. It's ludicrous to call it an easy day or to imply that it's not going to have a significant role to play in the recovery for subsequent stages.

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

"I don't really know what happened in the front. I heard that Movistar waited a little but the race was on and they were chasing riders like Steven Kruijswijk. I can't blame them for wanting to chase him. You can't give Kruijswijk three minutes; it's was a difficult situation."
https://twitter.com/tom_dumoulin/status/867078688885661696
Liked Tom D even more after these statements.

You know that a man who takes a toilet break out of the road instead of unloading his bowels in his pants is a very polite man.

 

[dacooley]

Re: Re:

This isn't about not being in winning moves, this is about not initiating moves

Yes, and you are basically saying it was a 100% Contador/Saxo initiation and 0% Quintana/Movistar. And I very much disagree on that one.

Exactly. Movistar could easily have just shut Contador down - the ball was in their court. Insteadthey went with the more aggressive option; no way the fireworks would have happened on that stage had Quintana not given them the go ahead.

the ball was in their court. a ball that was handed to them. who's gonna hand it to them this time? Or are they ready to take it themselves?

Well, they don't need to initiate any moves. Just mark Nibali, try to take a few seconds on him on the MTF, and Quintana wins the Giro. These last four stages will be attritional, they're too hard for fireworks.

Dumoulin is obviously done now. Zero chance he can win this race after the effort he had to put in today, his struggles with altitude and doubts about his last week form. He's fighting with Zakarin and Pozzovivo now for a first top 5 finish.

frankly im amazed by your 100 percent assurance in quintana with all the other contenders (dimoulin included) pretty much not having chances at all. although, quintana didnt show anything special today on the stage where he quite comfortably had to thrash this mediocre climbing field. seemingly nairo's toying with the competition with the tour in mind. that's the only explanation i can fancy.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

frankly im amazed by your 100 percent assurance in quintana with all the other contenders (dimoulin included) pretty much not having chances at all. although, quintana didnt show anything special today on the stage where he quite comfortably had to thrash this mediocre climbing field. seemingly nairo's toying with the competition with the tour in mind. that's the only explanation i can fancy.

Hey, don't misquote me here. I think Nibali has a reasonable outside chance, and have said so all along. Quintana is the favourite for me though because of his time advantage, team and superior top level climbing. This last week is just so brutally hard that I think everyone else is going to have at least one very bad day because their recovery isn't up to it; especially Dumoulin after having to dig so deep today.

 

[lenric]

Re: Re:

"I don't really know what happened in the front. I heard that Movistar waited a little but the race was on and they were chasing riders like Steven Kruijswijk. I can't blame them for wanting to chase him. You can't give Kruijswijk three minutes; it's was a difficult situation."
https://twitter.com/tom_dumoulin/status/867078688885661696
Liked Tom D even more after these statements.

You know that a man who takes a toilet break out of the road instead of unloading his bowels in his pants is a very polite man.

Greg Lemond is the man.