Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Rollthedice]

Re: Re:

He seemed to handle the pressure fine during the Tour.

I'm talking media pressure mostly. He already had another Giro podium in the bag. It's not the same thing.

This is a rational decision. He knows this route is much, much better for him. If neither Thomas nor Froome races takes 2 min + out of everyone in the ITTs. It's gonna take a monstrous effort to take it back.

Maybe not. The Gavia / Mortirolo stage alone should be good enough to make up most of that gap, IMO. That stage is the hardest in recent and not so recent GT history.

The most consistent climber will win this race.

Dumoulin is a consistent climber.

 

[kiszol]

Good decision. ASO can only thank it itself. I can't blame Tom either. The Giro parcours is perfect for him and the race is much better than the Tour. Bring it on!

I don't really see the point that Tom will suffer during the hard mountain stages... As far as I know it's not 2015 anymore and Dumoulin is one of the best climbers out there. Based on his 2018 performances only Yates seems to be somewhat better than him in that discipline of the sport...

 

[Robert5091]

Should be an interesting reprise of the Giro if Yates does the Giro too.

 

[dastott]

Good to see some of the top GC riders prioritising the Giro over the Tour. Taking out the TTs is just ridiculous.

 

[Nirvana]

Re:

Good decision. ASO can only thank it itself. I can't blame Tom either. The Giro parcours is perfect for him and the race is much better than the Tour. Bring it on!

I don't really see the point that Tom will suffer during the hard mountain stages... As far as I know it's not 2015 anymore and Dumoulin is one of the best climbers out there. Based on his 2018 performances only Yates seems to be somewhat better than him in that discipline of the sport...

Yeah, i think some understimates his climbing on big alpine mountains, in 2017 after having to s**t he almost maintained his gap on the Umbrailpass, was a monster performance in a stage that was harder than this year Gavia one, without his problem he could have won that day.
Not to mention the fact that last year during the interview after team presentation when asked about Giro and Tour he even said that the harder climbs of the Giro suits him better that the Tour ones and for this reason (along with the fact that he likes the race and Italy much) he'll likely target often the Giro during his career, that interview has passed unnoticed because there was only a streaming on You Tube but tell us a lot about his confidence on big mountains and why he continues to choose the Giro over the Tour. It's not only the TT mileage.

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

Good decision. ASO can only thank it itself. I can't blame Tom either. The Giro parcours is perfect for him and the race is much better than the Tour. Bring it on!

I don't really see the point that Tom will suffer during the hard mountain stages... As far as I know it's not 2015 anymore and Dumoulin is one of the best climbers out there. Based on his 2018 performances only Yates seems to be somewhat better than him in that discipline of the sport...

Yeah, i think some understimates his climbing on big alpine mountains, in 2017 after having to s**t he almost maintained his gap on the Umbrailpass, was a monster performance in a stage that was harder than this year Gavia one, without his problem he could have won that day.
Not to mention the fact that last year during the interview after team presentation when asked about Giro and Tour he even said that the harder climbs of the Giro suits him better that the Tour ones and for this reason (along with the fact that he likes the race and Italy much) he'll likely target often the Giro during his career, that interview has passed unnoticed because there was only a streaming on You Tube but tell us a lot about his confidence on big mountains and why he continues to choose the Giro over the Tour. It's not only the TT mileage.

Interesting. Sounds smart to me. If the Giro suits him better, then it makes since he would prefer it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re: Re:

Interesting. Sounds smart to me. If the Giro suits him better, then it makes since he would prefer it.

You're on a roll lately. You from Australia, mate?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Re:

He seemed to handle the pressure fine during the Tour.

I'm talking media pressure mostly. He already had another Giro podium in the bag. It's not the same thing.

This is a rational decision. He knows this route is much, much better for him. If neither Thomas nor Froome races takes 2 min + out of everyone in the ITTs. It's gonna take a monstrous effort to take it back.

Maybe not. The Gavia / Mortirolo stage alone should be good enough to make up most of that gap, IMO. That stage is the hardest in recent and not so recent GT history.

The most consistent climber will win this race.

Dumoulin is a consistent climber.

Which somehow still hasn't stuck with some members here.. Incredible! Or they might have some dementia over the winter. Idk

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Which somehow still hasn't stuck with some members here.. Incredible! Or they might have some dementia over the winter. Idk

I think somehow the presence of Froome made people overlook the fact that Dumoulin got 2nd at both Giro and Tour in the same year.
Something that up until last year many users here (me included, probably) would have deemed almost impossible for any rider.

 

[Tim Booth]

Re:

Should be an interesting reprise of the Giro if Yates does the Giro too.

After three stage victories and 13 days in the Maglia Rosa this year, Simon Yates will return to the Giro d’Italia in 2019 looking for more.
https://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/yates-back-for-more-at-giro-2019

 

[Red Rick]

I've found footage of GC riders talking about the Tour de France

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAA1xgTTw9w

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

Should be an interesting reprise of the Giro if Yates does the Giro too.

After three stage victories and 13 days in the Maglia Rosa this year, Simon Yates will return to the Giro d’Italia in 2019 looking for more.
https://www.greenedgecycling.com/news/yates-back-for-more-at-giro-2019

Add Nibs and maybe Bernal then it'll be worth being "sick" for a few days from work.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Re: Re:

He seemed to handle the pressure fine during the Tour.

I'm talking media pressure mostly. He already had another Giro podium in the bag. It's not the same thing.

This is a rational decision. He knows this route is much, much better for him. If neither Thomas nor Froome races takes 2 min + out of everyone in the ITTs. It's gonna take a monstrous effort to take it back.

Maybe not. The Gavia / Mortirolo stage alone should be good enough to make up most of that gap, IMO. That stage is the hardest in recent and not so recent GT history.

The most consistent climber will win this race.

Dumoulin is a consistent climber.

I meant the best climber on average. That's likely what it will take to win this unusual Giro. I could easily see Bernal or Mas win this one, assuming they didn't reach their career peak last season.

Mas may even keep the ITT deficit under 2 minutes.

 

[yaco]

Mitchelton Scott acceded to the wishes of their GC riders - Simon wanted the Giro, Adam the TDF and Esteban Giro/Vuelta - It's a poor decision by MS.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Re:

Which somehow still hasn't stuck with some members here.. Incredible! Or they might have some dementia over the winter. Idk

I think somehow the presence of Froome made people overlook the fact that Dumoulin got 2nd at both Giro and Tour in the same year.
Something that up until last year many users here (me included, probably) would have deemed almost impossible for any rider.

And I think it's not that unlikely that he gets at least 2nd at the tour again as it's currently looking as if there is approximately one gc rider not riding the giro next season. Seriously what is happening? Has the tour finally lost some of it's prestige? At least it's looking more and more likely that the giro will have a stronger gc field than the tour for the first time in ages.

Edit: Oh and Eshnar, I know the wildcards haven't been announced but is it too early for a giro field discussion thread? Could be an interesting one this year.

 

[Eshnar]

Re: Re:

Edit: Oh and Eshnar, I know the wildcards haven't been announced but is it too early for a giro field discussion thread? Could be an interesting one this year.

I shall grant you the privilege of starting the thread right now.
I have no time to do it myself

 

[IndianCyclist]

Toms vs Simon looks to become a great rivalry. + throw nibs in the mix = looks to be spectacular Giro

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

This is going to be a fantastic Giro. Dumoulin, Yates, Nibali, Bernal, Landa, Roglic (most likely)... what the heck!

It will be interesting to see how Yates will handle this. In the Giro last year he pretty much outdid himself to get enough time before the TT, which was the only longer one (apart from the prologue were he didn't even lose that much). It killed him.
Now there's an extra TT.. and in the Vuelta he won he rode much more conservatively. He cannot do that now. I'm curious to his tactics. Balls to the wall to gain time on Dumo? Or more careful and calculated and hope for some support with the others?

 

[Red Rick]

Re:

This is going to be a fantastic Giro. Dumoulin, Yates, Nibali, Bernal, Landa, Roglic (most likely)... what the heck!

It will be interesting to see how Yates will handle this. In the Giro last year he pretty much outdid himself to get enough time before the TT, which was the only longer one (apart from the prologue were he didn't even lose that much). It killed him.
Now there's an extra TT.. and in the Vuelta he won he rode much more conservatively. He cannot do that now. I'm curious to his tactics. Balls to the wall to gain time on Dumo? Or more careful and calculated and hope for some support with the others?

It's not really interesting.

Yates must go balls deep in the mountain stages and assume he won't crumble cause if he tries to conserve energy he won't make up the time he needs. The Giro was insanely hard last year, and he was in great form from the absolute start. His tactics weren't the only contributor to him crumbling, for example Thibaut Pinot rode much more conservative than Yates and collapsed worse.

I think Yates was stronger in the first two weeks of the Giro than in the Vuelta. He needs that shape during the last 12 stages of the Giro.

 

[roundabout]

In the Vuelta Yates attacked at over 10km to go on the penultimate mountain stage and on the penultimate climb in the last mountain stage.

I really doubt that Sappada solo was the reason that he ran out of gas 5 days later.

 

[Red Rick]

Meanwhile

Going Giro probably means another year where he doesn't focus on the Ardennes. I'm guessing he does the same schedule as usual, ride one of them February stage races, do Tirreno in a decent shape, then rest before altitude, Liege and Giro

 

[del1962]

Dumoulin should target TDF and if he did he would be favourite

That is just my opinion

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Dumoulin should target TDF and if he did he would be A favourite

That is just my opinion

Fixed that for you. Until he actually wins the Tour, Tom won’t be a number 1 favorite going in to it. He has all the abilities, is the best TT rider and as good as any in the mountains, but there has to be a question about his ruthlessness (with the roles reversed would Froome have waited for Pinot and Reitenbach after Finestre?) and about his team (he’s lost his 2 most consistent domestiques from previous campaigns in Geschke and Ten Dam, and not replaced them with anything much stronger).

 

[Salvarani]

Go Giro and Vuelta Tom

 

[Salvarani]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin should target TDF and if he did he would be A favourite

That is just my opinion

Fixed that for you. Until he actually wins the Tour, Tom won’t be a number 1 favorite going in to it. He has all the abilities, is the best TT rider and as good as any in the mountains, but there has to be a question about his ruthlessness (with the roles reversed would Froome have waited for Pinot and Reitenbach after Finestre?) and about his team (he’s lost his 2 most consistent domestiques from previous campaigns in Geschke and Ten Dam, and not replaced them with anything much stronger).

If he lines up with Oomen, Roche and Kelderman as domestiques. That would be pretty solid. Soren Kragh Andersen was good in the Tour last year also. They have a few young riders that will hopefully step up too.

Tom also seems to be able to do quite well on his own in the mountains. If he has the legs he can follow and even attack himself. As he has showed.

You cant really ask for more than that. Every team except Sky, are in the same position.