Teams & Riders Tom Dumoulin discussion thread

[Logic-is-your-friend]

What was basically missing was a great midfielder and Dumoulin stepped up to fulfill that role. Now saying that because of that you will root for JV to get destroyed. Why? If you are a fan of Dumoulin, JV is his team.

I don't really support teams. I was a huge fan of Lambrecht, while my disdain for Lotto was immense. I'm a big van Aert fan, i have always really liked Dumoulin (even when he was 'just' an ITTer) and if i could have picked one rider to win the Tour, it would have been him. But i don't really "feel" Roglic, and while i have nothing against him, i actually like Bernal more (even though i probably dislike Ineos a lot more than Jumbo). And the reason wasn't because Tom stepped up, but because Tom stepped up for nothing and the team was killing it for nothing. If Roglic didn't feel it was necessary or didn't think he had the legs, no problem, but he should have informed the team(car) so that the team could spare themselves and so that Tom wouldn't have been under pressure by the pace of his own teammates and wouldn't have felt the need to sacrifice himself. If he did tell the teamcar, then imho they messed up.

 

[Gargamel35]

I don't really support teams. I was a huge fan of Lambrecht, while my disdain for Lotto was immense. I'm a big van Aert fan, i have always really liked Dumoulin (even when he was 'just' an ITTer) and if i could have picked one rider to win the Tour, it would have been him. But i don't really "feel" Roglic, and while i have nothing against him, i actually like Bernal more (even though i probably dislike Ineos a lot more than Jumbo). And the reason wasn't because Tom stepped up, but because Tom stepped up for nothing and the team was killing it for nothing. If Roglic didn't feel it was necessary or didn't think he had the legs, no problem, but he should have informed the team(car) so that the team could spare themselves and so that Tom wouldn't have been under pressure by the pace of his own teammates and wouldn't have felt the need to sacrifice himself. If he did tell the teamcar, then imho they messed up.

5 minutes. TD worked 5 minutes. Before TV and Roglič realized what was happening and probably trying to reach Tom, it was already over.

 

[CyclistAbi]

And the reason wasn't because Tom stepped up, but because Tom stepped up for nothing and the team was killing it for nothing.

That is the thing, JV was not killing it for nothing. Other teams started to get ideas, something had to be done, and Dumoulin did it.

For Roglič the ideal scenario for sure is to isolate other favorites, such as Bernal, and to still have a few team members beside him, the second best scenario, for Roglič, is to isolate other favorites and to ride as a group (of favorites) after. JV just didn't have it in them anymore, after stage 4 and before Dumoulin stepped up.

But i don't really "feel" Roglic, and while i have nothing against him, i actually like Bernal more (even though i probably dislike Ineos a lot more than Jumbo).

No problem with that. Roglič and Bernal will likely go mano a mano in high mountains anyway. They can avoid each other only for so long.

Looking forward to that.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Missed these stages because I was out of service. Crushed to hear about Big Tom. 2017 Giro and 2018 double seem like a long way ago. Appears his confidence has been destroyed and he’s settled into dom role, a mistake IMO. Roglic is Lazer focused so maybe that mentality has intimidated Tom and pushed him back. Hope he rediscovers it. Not sure what else he can do this year, but domming for Roglic in Tour is a disappointing focus.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Hopefully the GC race will get settled in the mountains, Dumoulin after getting some extra time to prepare for a good performance on a TT.

 

[Lequack]

Missed these stages because I was out of service. Crushed to hear about Big Tom. 2017 Giro and 2018 double seem like a long way ago. Appears his confidence has been destroyed and he’s settled into dom role, a mistake IMO. Roglic is Lazer focused so maybe that mentality has intimidated Tom and pushed him back. Hope he rediscovers it. Not sure what else he can do this year, but domming for Roglic in Tour is a disappointing focus.

Ineos I guess solved the three amigos problem by sending everyone to their own GT, which in the end might now give them a good chance at the Giro at least. As a fan you always want to see the best competing against each other, that's why it was always nice to cheer for Tom at his Sunweb team. I wonder if it wouldn't have been better for Jumbo to send him to the Giro or Vuelta.

Todays he was actually doing very good for a climb that doesn't suit him. And that was after being in the wind out front.

 

[Red Rick]

Also they once again did the middle of the stage pretty slow, so the stage and how it was raced didn't exactly help Dumoulin, still he was basically 11th of the GC guys, so he seems to be slowly improving.

The gap between the 5 best climbers is still pretty big though, so he may not be able to help Roglic all that much in terms of attack on MTF, but if he's attacked in any tricky move Dumoulin is a massive help

 

[KZD]

If his shape continue to improve he might even win the final time-trial.

It seems that he is also thinking about racing the Worlds time-trial, I think its too flat for him but it will be an interesting test if he goes.

 

[Lequack]

If his shape continue to improve he might even win the final time-trial.

It seems that he is also thinking about racing the Worlds time-trial, I think its too flat for him but it will be an interesting test if he goes.

Then again it might be Wout who wins the ITT as well, he's just in that kind of form.

 

[Red Rick]

I don't think Van Aert is at Dennis' level in the ITT and I pretty much expect Dennis to just delete the entire field in the Worlds ITT.

 

[CyclistAbi]

AFAIK Dumoulin wanted to go to the Tour. As for Dumoulin now helping out Roglič. I feel that some of you make too big of a deal out of it. It's obvious Dumoulin would be missed on the Tour. JV being one man short and Ineos being able to do more. Like yesterday, Dumoulin doing a great job on Col de Néronne. Without his contribution Kuss would likely need to pull and Ineos likely to end up being in a better position on Pas de Peyrol.

And all in all, people sending Dumoulin to other GTs. That again is about expectations, only win would do. Dumoulin explicitly said, he doesn't want such pressure for a while. They almost ruined him at Sunweb, with that. Give him time, he is now in a great team and for sure he will get support, when he decides to go after a win on a GT race again.

 

[Red Rick]

AFAIK Dumoulin wanted to go to the Tour. As for Dumoulin now helping out Roglič. I feel that some of you make too big of a deal out of it. It's obvious Dumoulin would be missed on the Tour. JV being one man short and Ineos being able to do more. Like yesterday, Dumoulin doing a great job on Col de Néronne. Without his contribution Kuss would likely need to pull and Ineos likely to end up being in a better position on Pas de Peyrol.

And all in all, people sending Dumoulin to other GTs. That again is about expectations, only win would do. Dumoulin explicitly said, he doesn't want such pressure for a while. They almost ruined him at Sunweb, with that. Give him time, he is now in a great team and for sure he will get support, when he decides to go after a win on a GT race again.

So much this.

Sure Dumoulin was disappointed with his form in the first half of the Tour, but that's expectations he put on himself, and on the other side he's really happy to be part of a team that's performing like this. And the way he's riding now he honestly would not be the favorite in the Vuelta or Giro anyway

With them talking about going to the Worlds ITT probalby it looks to me like they haven't really planned ahead so I'm assuming there's no Vuelta in the planning. He could do the classics much more on the fly, and Jumbo would be able to send one helluva team there.

I do hope if Roglic wins the Tour he doesn't party his form away before the classics

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think Van Aert is at Dennis' level in the ITT and I pretty much expect Dennis to just delete the entire field in the Worlds ITT.

No, not unless crappy Dennis shows up. Especially since van Aert hasn't trained on his ITT bike much this year. The only one that could possible have beaten an on form Dennis won't be there.

 

[Luthor]

So much this.

Sure Dumoulin was disappointed with his form in the first half of the Tour, but that's expectations he put on himself, and on the other side he's really happy to be part of a team that's performing like this. And the way he's riding now he honestly would not be the favorite in the Vuelta or Giro anyway

With them talking about going to the Worlds ITT probalby it looks to me like they haven't really planned ahead so I'm assuming there's no Vuelta in the planning. He could do the classics much more on the fly, and Jumbo would be able to send one helluva team there.

I do hope if Roglic wins the Tour he doesn't party his form away before the classics

I'm really curious what TJV is gonna do in Vuelta now that Kruiswijk is not going. The team already announced to go there is not bad at all, it's missing a leader tho. Neither Dumo or Roglic have any races planned during Vuelta. I kinda doubt that team is gonna be for Bennett but who knows.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I do honestly believe, that whatever JV did plan for 2020, all of it was more or less about the Tour.

 

[savornin]

Dumo as super dom, really don't like it. Rather have him going for his own chances and end up 6th. This JV situation is not working for him so far.

 

[Salvarani]

I think some of yall forget that he was injured half of 2019 and then got one race before the break happened. Then he looked really good in the Dauphine, but maybe it was wishful thinking that he would be able to challenge for the win here already.

I think next year or maybe later this year, we will see Tom back to his best. Hopefully.

And to be fair to Tom. The last 1,5-2 years he has just been really unfortunate. While other riders like Roglic, Bernal and Pog are riders that have really stepped up. That simply might be better? A new set of rivals. Even though Roglic is a teammate.

I think he is at the right team for him to win more GTs. He just need more time and races.

 

[yaco]

The Vuelta is his race to lose - The TDF is training.

 

[Leinster]

AFAIK Dumoulin wanted to go to the Tour. As for Dumoulin now helping out Roglič. I feel that some of you make too big of a deal out of it. It's obvious Dumoulin would be missed on the Tour. JV being one man short and Ineos being able to do more. Like yesterday, Dumoulin doing a great job on Col de Néronne. Without his contribution Kuss would likely need to pull and Ineos likely to end up being in a better position on Pas de Peyrol.

And all in all, people sending Dumoulin to other GTs. That again is about expectations, only win would do. Dumoulin explicitly said, he doesn't want such pressure for a while. They almost ruined him at Sunweb, with that. Give him time, he is now in a great team and for sure he will get support, when he decides to go after a win on a GT race again.

Not that I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but looking at the way Sunweb has performed at this Tour, and the big man leading the GC group to the top of the Colombiere, I can't help wondering what if Sunweb were putting all that tactical smarts and team spirit behind a Dumoulin GC challenge, rather than Tom putting all his effort into a Rogla win.

Or even, a Pogacar win..?

 

[Red Rick]

Big favorite for stage 20 now IMO.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Dumo as super dom, really don't like it. Rather have him going for his own chances and end up 6th.

And how would racing for 6th, being captain, do him much favor?

I can't help wondering what if Sunweb were putting all that tactical smarts and team spirit behind a Dumoulin GC challenge, rather than Tom putting all his effort into a Rogla win.

Or even, a Pogacar win..?

But would others agree? That is would other Sunweb riders put their ambitions, stage wins, aside, to help out Dumoulin? Not sure if Sunweb would have a realistic chance at this Tour.

P.S. Great performance by Dumoulin on stage 15. He just didn't want to let go, just like his team members before him. In my opinion that looks much more impressive, then racing for 6th. And as said earlier, it's not like Dumoulin won't get a chance, to go after a GC, on some future GT race. For example Kruijswijk got (and still likely will get) plenty of chances.

 

[JosephK]

And how would racing for 6th, being captain, do him much favor?



But would others agree? That is would other Sunweb riders put their ambitions, stage wins, aside, to help out Dumoulin? Not sure if Sunweb would have a realistic chance at this Tour.

P.S. Great performance by Dumoulin on stage 15. He just didn't want to let go, just like his team members before him. In my opinion that looks much more impressive, then racing for 6th. And as said earlier, it's not like Dumoulin won't get a chance, to go after a GC, on some future GT race. For example Kruijswijk got (and still likely will get) plenty of chances.

For a while there, I thought Dumo was going to lead the whole train up the hill all the way to the finish on stage 15.

 

[lenric]

And how would racing for 6th, being captain, do him much favor?



But would others agree? That is would other Sunweb riders put their ambitions, stage wins, aside, to help out Dumoulin? Not sure if Sunweb would have a realistic chance at this Tour.

P.S. Great performance by Dumoulin on stage 15. He just didn't want to let go, just like his team members before him. In my opinion that looks much more impressive, then racing for 6th. And as said earlier, it's not like Dumoulin won't get a chance, to go after a GC, on some future GT race. For example Kruijswijk got (and still likely will get) plenty of chances.

Because at Sunweb he was 1st in the pecking order and now likely it will be much harder for him to be anything more than 2nd.

 

[CyclistAbi]

But in the end Dumoulin choose, he doesn't want to be 1st in Sunweb pecking order. Therefore i can imagine, that is not all that great position to be in, or was for him. And i don't see on how Roglič could target 3 GTs per year, in the next couple of years. Anyway, back to the Tour, they still have to win it.

P.S. After roosters can peck.

 

[Leinster]

But would others agree? That is would other Sunweb riders put their ambitions, stage wins, aside, to help out Dumoulin? Not sure if Sunweb would have a realistic chance at this Tour

This whole Tour has seen them all regularly give up their stage chances to help one rider. Also, if they were going for gc their personnel would be different (No Bol, Kelderman at the Tour instead of TA, etc).

They probably wouldn’t win, but it’d be interesting to see how Dumoulin as a team leader against this JV team. He’s only lost time after putting in big turns for Roglic, he’d be coming into this 3rd week possibly pressing the podium spots, and with the TT to come on Saturday.