Top 10 Most Reckless Dopers

[crapna]

Mühlegg had been ill before 2001 worlds and he was anything but well-prepared. That's why he was struggling on the early races. In 100% condition he probably would have destroyed Elofsson and Isometsä in the pursuit inspite of his insufficient classic technique.

 

[craig1985]

Guys like Rebellin and di Luca have been very successful when it comes to doping. Rebellin has won a bunch of Classics, same with di Luca and you can add his Giro win in '07. Not sure if they can count as reckless, but when you do mention the word, I do think of Levi when people mention going from a "donkey to a racehorse".

 

[Bavarianrider]

Mühlegg had been ill before 2001 worlds and he was anything but well-prepared. That's why he was struggling on the early races. In 100% condition he probably would have destroyed Elofsson and Isometsä in the pursuit inspite of his insufficient classic technique.

His insufficient technique at least won him world junior titles way back in 1989
So the story goes like that:
So Elofson was able to beat all those doped Mueleggs, Finns, Swedish and Italians while being clean himself?
And his career was ruined cause he chased the doped to the max Muellegg for 15 mins in one race? That didn't keep him of winning gold in 2003 of course. And it surely didn't keep him of winnning world cups just weeks after that race. Well yeah that story sounds very reasonable to me.

 

[crapna]

Elofsson beat recovering Mühlegg but not top form Mühlegg. No idea whether Elofsson himself was juiced or not but I don't believe in stories that Mühlegg ruined Elofsson's career in SLC.

 

[MrRoboto]

But it's not like Mühlegg was coming out of nowwehere. He had shown dominate performances way before Salt Lake City.

Yeah, but nowhere near Salt Lake City, where he dominated all the events he raced.

Also, winning by 1:30 or so is nothing outstanding over 30km Cross Country skiing. Look at the results of the 90es.

Actually it was quite unusual through the championships in the 90's. The gaps between the first were usually closer to 30 sec. Since it was a mass start this should be even more strange.

In womans cross country skiing they are normal till this very day.

Not really. But, yeah, the gaps are bigger among the women than among the men. This is mainly because the overall level is weaker on the women's side.

I guess you can argue that in 2002 the cross country field was relatively weak, since many of the big guys from the 90's now were gone, and the sport seemed to be in a transitional period in several ways. But either way Mühlegg's performance in the 2002 olympics is one of the more ridiculous things ever seen in a cross country competition.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Lillehammer 1994

30 km (freier Stil) [Bearbeiten]
Platz Land Sportler Zeit
1 NOR Thomas Alsgaard 1:12:26,4 h
2 NOR Bjørn Dæhlie 1:13:13,6 h
3 FIN Mika Myllylä 1:14:14,5 h
4 RUS Michail Botwinow 1:14:43,3 h
5 ITA Maurilio De Zolt 1:14:55,5 h
6 FIN Jari Isometsä 1:15:12,5 h
7 ITA Silvio Fauner 1:15:27,7 h
8 NOR Egil Kristiansen 1:15:37,7 h
10 SMIRNOV Vladimir 1964 KAZ 1:16:01.
15 LASUTIN Gennadiy 1966 RUS 1:16:45.9
20. 20 1051480 IMAI Hiroyuki 1970 JPN 1:18:03.7
Alsgard almost 2 minutes ahead of the first non Norwegian
7th place already 3 minutes down
10th place 3:30
15th place 4:35
20th place 5:30
Not that much fewer gaps then in Salt Lake.
And remember the race in Salt Lake was at 1800m alltitude. Alltitude often creates big gaps.

 

[nevada]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-i-didnt-do-anything-wrong

This must be the most reckless !

 

[crapna]

Reckless bloodsucking, I would say.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Jose Maria Jiminez
Tom Simpson

 

[Cloxxki]

And remember the race in Salt Lake was at 1800m alltitude. Alltitude often creates big gaps.

Doesn't altitude also promote blood doping more than sea level?

Let's say you take the world's top-50, and let them race an individual both at sea level and 1800m, with one top-5 contender doped to da max, the rest clean. Do you expect simillar gaps?
If you repeat in a mass start at 1800m, I can imagine the doper killing the clean ones even more. Especially if they hang on, hoping the speed surge is temporary, and the doper will slow down (which he doesn't, thanks to dope). You go too deep into the red zone, and lose more time than in a time trial, despite the initial slipstream. When someone is really stronger, being able to see them, may in fact work out to a psychological downside.

 

[MrRoboto]

Lillehammer 1994

Not that much fewer gaps then in Salt Lake.
And remember the race in Salt Lake was at 1800m alltitude. Alltitude often creates big gaps

Yeah, there are a couple of championships with such huge gaps. Like the norwegians in Lillehammer, Smirnov in Thunder Bay and Myllylä in Nagano 1998. Of these, were Myllylä most impressive with 1:30 down the 2nd place, and 2 min to 3rd. Myllylä was a pretty reckless doper himself though. And the norwegians would have the benefit of having the best skis on home ground (like Trondheim 1997 and Oslo 2011).

Anyhow..Mühlegg's 2 min win stands out, especially since gaps between the other contestans are smaller than they are if we compare with Lillehammer (which would be expected since it was a mass start).


A bit funny that you omitted Mühlegg's nice 9th place in the 30 km in Lillehammer 1994. 3:20 behind Alsgaard. In 2002 it was the other way around, and Alsgaard was 4 min behind Mühlegg. What happened? Did they change doping programmes?

 

[crapna]

Of these, were Myllylä most impressive with 1:30 down the 2nd place, and 2 min to 3rd. Myllylä was a pretty reckless doper himself though.

Heavy snowfall affected those gaps. Myllylä was superior in very hard and slow conditions. If I remember correct, the time gaps among the rest were also quite significant due to weather.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Yeah, there are a couple of championships with such huge gaps. Like the norwegians in Lillehammer, Smirnov in Thunder Bay and Myllylä in Nagano 1998. Of these, were Myllylä most impressive with 1:30 down the 2nd place, and 2 min to 3rd. Myllylä was a pretty reckless doper himself though. And the norwegians would have the benefit of having the best skis on home ground (like Trondheim 1997 and Oslo 2011).

Anyhow..Mühlegg's 2 min win stands out, especially since gaps between the other contestans are smaller than they are if we compare with Lillehammer (which would be expected since it was a mass start).


A bit funny that you omitted Mühlegg's nice 9th place in the 30 km in Lillehammer 1994. 3:20 behind Alsgaard. In 2002 it was the other way around, and Alsgaard was 4 min behind Mühlegg. What happened? Did they change doping programmes?

It is well known that the Norwegians and Italians were using EPO at that time. Mühlegg was most likely clean back then. (At least in terms of blood doping) He was really good already, but of course against the Epo guys nobody had a chance.
In 2002 Mühlegg used Epo of course. Alsgaard was past his prime by then and surely he wasn't on the 1994 doping level anymore. That does not mean he was clean obviously.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Heavy snowfall affected those gaps. Myllylä was superior in very hard and slow conditions. If I remember correct, the time gaps among the rest were also quite significant due to weather.

Gaps were quiet big in all competitions.
There was clearly a two class system back then. Those on Epo and those not. It was just like in cycling.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Doesn't altitude also promote blood doping more than sea level?

Let's say you take the world's top-50, and let them race an individual both at sea level and 1800m, with one top-5 contender doped to da max, the rest clean. Do you expect simillar gaps?
If you repeat in a mass start at 1800m, I can imagine the doper killing the clean ones even more. Especially if they hang on, hoping the speed surge is temporary, and the doper will slow down (which he doesn't, thanks to dope). You go too deep into the red zone, and lose more time than in a time trial, despite the initial slipstream. When someone is really stronger, being able to see them, may in fact work out to a psychological downside.

Possible, maybe Mühlegg even responded to doping better then the rest. Maybe. But suggesting that he was doping that much more then the rest is just silly.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Possible, maybe Mühlegg even responded to doping better then the rest. Maybe. But suggesting that he was doping that much more then the rest is just silly.

Mühlegg also had darbopoietin, 2nd gen EPO, which is what he tested positive for. That stuff was so new that they hadn't even got round to banning it yet.

How many others had it as well is a good question. Perhaps Mühlegg was a super responder, amplified by altitude. Perhaps Mühlegg was a guy who was using as much as anybody else but happened to be a good skier coming into his best form; perhaps he used more of the same products that everybody else was using; maybe he had his hands on something that nobody else (or at least nobody else on his level had access to.

Whatever it was, something turned this former decent skier for Germany into an unstoppable machine when he skied for Spain, even despite his woeful, wasteful technique. And given that he was such a complete loco, and that he tested positive at the point at which he achieved his greatest (and most obviously dominant) triumphs, and as he beat a whole host of people many of whom we know full well to have been dopers... pardon us for thinking he was up to his gills and more.

The guy's performances were not Chris Froome at the Vuelta-like "from out of nowhere". But they were Ivan Basso at the 2006 Giro-like "he's crushing the dopers like they've never strapped on skis before", and he did it with the equivalent of a technique that Fernando Escartín would laugh at.

 

[roundabout]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/valverde-i-didnt-do-anything-wrong

This must be the most reckless !

He still needs to repeat this lie a few thousand times...

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

He still needs to repeat this lie a few thousand times...

i belive him

 

[thehog]

i belive him

Never tested positive.

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

Never tested positive.

just ask Armstrong what that means, you ignorant fools out there!!

 

[roundabout]

What does it mean?

That there's merely a blood bag with EPO with his (code)name on it?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

What does it mean?

That there's merely a blood bag with EPO with his (code)name on it?

yea right , just come here and spread you anti - piti comments

 

[roundabout]

Piti does a fine job of reminding people of his past himself

 

[Bavarianrider]

Mühlegg also had darbopoietin, 2nd gen EPO, which is what he tested positive for. That stuff was so new that they hadn't even got round to banning it yet.

How many others had it as well is a good question. Perhaps Mühlegg was a super responder, amplified by altitude. Perhaps Mühlegg was a guy who was using as much as anybody else but happened to be a good skier coming into his best form; perhaps he used more of the same products that everybody else was using; maybe he had his hands on something that nobody else (or at least nobody else on his level had access to.

Whatever it was, something turned this former decent skier for Germany into an unstoppable machine when he skied for Spain, even despite his woeful, wasteful technique. And given that he was such a complete loco, and that he tested positive at the point at which he achieved his greatest (and most obviously dominant) triumphs, and as he beat a whole host of people many of whom we know full well to have been dopers... pardon us for thinking he was up to his gills and more.

The guy's performances were not Chris Froome at the Vuelta-like "from out of nowhere". But they were Ivan Basso at the 2006 Giro-like "he's crushing the dopers like they've never strapped on skis before", and he did it with the equivalent of a technique that Fernando Escartín would laugh at.

Again, Mühlegg did not come out of nowhere. He dominated the world in his junior days! When he came in the world cup he had some good re****s and was doing quiet well in his early twenties. However, he could not compete with the absolute best in this days. There's a strong indication that the German team was not on Epo back then, while the wolrd class was. And without Epo you didn't win back then. But Mühlegg had several to 10 results which is quiet good. Especially in long distances 30km and 50km he did very well! So the guy had a laod of talent and was working as hard as anybody can.
When he became a pasniard he obviously benifitet of the doping sytsem. Then all of a sudden he was able to win races, as he had the same medication then the rest of the world had. Maybe had something better then the rest in 2002. But even if this was the case. There's no reason to ahte on this guy like that. He just did what they all did back in the day. He might have done it just a little better then the races. But If you hate on Mühlegg then please hate on everybody who won something back then.
He is just the easy victim. A stupid guy not smart enough to defend himself. Just like Ben Johnson was the easy victim and still is, despite there is proof that evrybody in the 1988 final was drugged. Still it's only Ben who gets all the hate, same with Mühlegg.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Ben Johnson was the easy victim because he was so stupendously unsubtle. So was Mühlegg, and so is Riccò.

Are you saying that the German XC skiing team didn't have access to the doping products but the Spanish one did? I think it seems like more that he was no longer restricted by the German team's program and did anything and everything in sight to win. As evidenced by his testing positive for something so new it hadn't actually been banned. And I specifically, categorically stated that it WASN'T a Chris Froome-like overnight transformation. But that it was like Ivan Basso in 2006. The guy was good before, but suddenly he was stupidly good, so stupidly good it stood out a mile.

Just as Ben Johnson might have won the gold medal anyway if he'd been doing only the same as everybody else, Mühlegg might have had successes from other programs and on his day could be highly competitive. But just as Johnson made a mockery of the competition in a way that was highly indicative of obvious drug use in 1988, so Mühlegg did the same in 2002. Even the complete novice to the sport could see Johnson's sprint in Seoul looked ridiculous.