Tour de France 2013

[airstream]

Well, it's pity the race will go in an anti-clockwise direction which makes it difficult to organize a MTF on PdB via Port de Pailhères. By the way, does Pailheres have anybody to pay for it? Anyway, I think, out of all pyreneean finish climbs, PdB has the biggest chance to be included. It's classic of nowadays Tour; probably the hardest MTF in the Tour as a whole; the climb that was the great Oracle until Jelle van Endert. The Pailheres finish is far more doubtful, especially given, as you say, one more neophyte climb should be included for that.

 

[Ferminal]

What do you mean? That stage will be starting somewhere like Albi and heading straight South. Pailheres -> PdB is completely possible, the problem is it's a meaningless chain, you may as well have PdB as the only climb. Bonascre is the only MTF you can do after Pailheres, but I doubt people are over the abomination of 2010 to do that again. The suggestion is that Ascou station would pay for Pailheres MTF.

 

[airstream]

What do you mean? That stage will be starting somewhere like Albi and heading straight South. Pailheres -> PdB is completely possible, the problem is it's a meaningless chain, you may as well have PdB as the only climb. Bonascre is the only MTF you can do after Pailheres, but I doubt people are over the abomination of 2010 to do that again. The suggestion is that Ascou station would pay for Pailheres MTF.

The Pailheres was used only when the Pyrenees were passed later than Alps. Surely, a route can contradict a magistral (anti-clockwise) direction a lot. OK, how do you see it? A possible stage to Plat d'adet, then something transitional without MTF, then Pailheres and a transfer to the north?

 

[McLovin]

The Pailheres was used only when the Pyrenees were passed later than Alps.

Yes, but next year it's like they are coming from the Alps.
And PDB after Pailheres is perfectly natural in this situation.

 

[airstream]

What do you mean? That stage will be starting somewhere like Albi and heading straight South. Pailheres -> PdB is completely possible, the problem is it's a meaningless chain, you may as well have PdB as the only climb. Bonascre is the only MTF you can do after Pailheres, but I doubt people are over the abomination of 2010 to do that again. The suggestion is that Ascou station would pay for Pailheres MTF.

Ok, sorry, I misunderstood your point first. I was trying to say exactly about a 'meaningless chain". As for abomination of 2010, sadly, it's not the matter of a climb, as we saw similar situations with almost any of legendary finish uphills. It's an issue of relation of forces in a given day that one can never predict.

 

[pastronef]

that's what i love about the Tour. we know by heart any route and MTF and crossroads in the middle of the pyrenees without ever going there

 

[McLovin]

and we know that even we dream for monster stages, we'll get a circle around Foix after two beautiful mountains.

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

What do you mean? That stage will be starting somewhere like Albi and heading straight South. Pailheres -> PdB is completely possible, the problem is it's a meaningless chain, you may as well have PdB as the only climb. Bonascre is the only MTF you can do after Pailheres, but I doubt people are over the abomination of 2010 to do that again. The suggestion is that Ascou station would pay for Pailheres MTF.

What I would like to see is the combination Port de Pailhéres and Plateau de Sanquet. This is the highest plateau in Ax 3 Domaines, and a continuation of the Plateau de Bonascre. I'm not sure if the road is in good condition, but it would be a great climb: about 15 K at 8,5%!

 

[pastronef]

and we know that even we dream for monster stages, we'll get a circle around Foix after two beautiful mountains.

yep, you are right

 

[McLovin]

Would be nice if they put 5-6 mountain stages one letour.fr and fans to vote for one, like for ASG in NBA. 1 from 21 would not be a shame financially speaking.

 

[Ferminal]

As for abomination of 2010, sadly, it's not the matter of a climb, as we saw similar situations with almost any of legendary finish uphills. It's an issue of relation of forces in a given day that one can never predict.

Of course, I was just being a bit colourful. But I do think it's too soon for an exact combination to be used again.

The Pyrenees will be covered East-to-West, so we will get this PdB/Pailheres stage, and that will probably be it (if Ventoux comes true for Week 1). I think I'd have preferred a Plat d'Adet finish, although we have had enough Peyresourde too. There will be a second Pyrenees stage but it is more likely to be soft (see 2009).

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

What do you mean? That stage will be starting somewhere like Albi and heading straight South. Pailheres -> PdB is completely possible, the problem is it's a meaningless chain, you may as well have PdB as the only climb. Bonascre is the only MTF you can do after Pailheres, but I doubt people are over the abomination of 2010 to do that again. The suggestion is that Ascou station would pay for Pailheres MTF.

Using this logic you can never use PdB in a hard mountain stage because it's not linkable to a big climb. But how about


Port de Pailheres (HC)
Col du Pradel (1)
Col des Sept Freres (2)
(Col de Marmare)
Cote de Lordat (2)
Plateau de Beille (HC)

this option adds a bit of false flat after the Col des Sept Freres, though.



or the more compact

Port de Pailheres (HC)
Col de Chioula (2)
Cote de Lordat (2)
Plateau de Beille (HC)

You can bypass damn near the whole valley between Pailheres and PdB and then descend towards the base of PdB. The east side of Pailheres is also linkable to the Roque-Jalere (1), Jau (1) - Garavel (2) and some 3rd and 4rd category climbs in between.

 

[ScotsBiker]

What I would like to see is the combination Port de Pailhéres and Plateau de Sanquet. This is the highest plateau in Ax 3 Domaines, and a continuation of the Plateau de Bonascre. I'm not sure if the road is in good condition, but it would be a great climb: about 15 K at 8,5%!

A few years ago we rode up it on MTBs and it was steep ! It's quite loose and not smooth, like Strade Bianche is smooth, so would not really go.

 

[Ferminal]

Using this logic you can never use PdB in a hard mountain stage because it's not linkable to a big climb.

No, my logic is that you shouldn't waste a climb like Pailheres as a "leg softener" for PdB.

Last year's stage is as good as any for PdB.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

No, my logic is that you shouldn't waste a climb like Pailheres as a "leg softener" for PdB.

Last year's stage is as good as any for PdB.

Um, so apparently you're okay with the Col d'Agnes being used as a leg softener, a climb that is almost as hard as Pailheres and equally long and steep. Both Agnes and Pailheres are more suited to the specialists than PdB. Both climbs were wasted in that respect. What's the difference?

 

[Ferminal]

Um, so apparently you're okay with the Col d'Agnes being used as a leg softener, a climb that is almost as hard as Pailheres and equally long and steep. Both Agnes and Pailheres are more suited to the specialists than PdB. Both climbs were wasted in that respect. What's the difference?

Where is the rumour for Agnes?

Almost as hard, no.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Where is the rumour for Agnes?

Relevance? You were comparing it with last year's stage, which included it. You said it was as good a PdB stage as any.

Do you have an argument or... ???

Almost as hard, no.

You're mistaken. They're both very hard climbs.

 

[Ferminal]

Relevance? You were comparing it with last year's stage, which included it. You said it was as good a PdB stage as any.

I'm not saying Pailheres into PdB is a bad stage, indeed, it's "as good as any" also, there's just no "amazing" PdB stage you can do.

We have a strong Pailheres rumour, albeit following on from a PdB rumour. My point is that Pailheres can be used in a stage in its own right and produce more or less what you would get out of using it with PdB. Why should we try and squeeze Pailheres into a PdB stage when you can have an MTF, descent, or link with Bonscare. All these are better options (as far as Pailheres is concerned) than a combination with PdB.

I will always support more "finishing climbs" being used in the Tour as opposed to channeling everything into Alpe d'Huez and its Pyrenean equivalent. So yes, if there is ever a suggestion of Col d'Agnes being used as a finishing climb (Latrape and a finish at the Lers turnoff?) then I would definitely hope for that ahead of a PdB link.

 

[gregrowlerson]

So is the earlier rumoured double Alp du'ez final stage no longer likely?

I think it will be a mountain heavy tour; given that there are so many classic climbs that they will wish to include. I hope for a MTT. Why not Venteox? To have that at the end of the first week would be great. TTT is already confirmed, so a MTT with a flatish ITT near the end would be fine. Bring back Plad'adet please, though rumours aren't promising. PDB is okay, and that MTF with another like Bonascre would be enough for Pyrenees with the Alps being top heavy. Ju-Plaix rumour is great; need at least one HC-descent finish. That, Du'ez stage, Telegraphe-Galibier stage I guess. Maybe they'll even have 4 stages in the Alps for the 100th edition.

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

I think it will be a mountain heavy tour; given that there are so many classic climbs that they will wish to include. I hope for a MTT. Why not Venteox? To have that at the end of the first week would be great. TTT is already confirmed, so a MTT with a flatish ITT near the end would be fine.

You may be served, because there are rumours of a possible MTT from Annecy to la Semnoz.

 

[Magnus]

What's with all the talk about La Semnoz? Are there any sources for this?

It doesn't seem very logical to me. There's literally nothing at La Semnoz expect for a hotel, a restaurant and a splendid view. It's not like there is a big ski station who could pay for the show. And it's not that it has a big place in the TdF history afaik, but maybe someone can enlighten me?

 

[Another_Dutch_Guy]

It's mentioned somewhere in the reactions at the famous Velowire Tour de France route page. I can imagine Annecy would like to pay for it. Besides, it seems very suitable for a ITT since the station can be reached from several sides.

The suggested route is: Corsica, Mediteranee, Pyrenees, Bordeaux, Transfer to Nantes and via the Ventoux back to the Alpes. There might be mountain stages to Lac d'Emosson, l'Alpe d'Huez, Tignes and Morzine. And on the last saturday that MTT.

 

[Magnus]

But that was just some guys wishes for all the stages that we know nothing about (which is anything after stage 4 really isn't it?).

 

[roundabout]

But that was just some guys wishes for all the stages that we know nothing about (which is anything after stage 4 really isn't it?).

No, I believe that it's a genuine rumor of a stage finish in or around Annecy.

As mentioned for example here

http://www.ledauphine.com/sport/201...ecy-morzine-et-le-grand-bornand-sur-les-rangs

 

[Ferminal]

What's with all the talk about La Semnoz? Are there any sources for this?

It doesn't seem very logical to me. There's literally nothing at La Semnoz expect for a hotel, a restaurant and a splendid view. It's not like there is a big ski station who could pay for the show. And it's not that it has a big place in the TdF history afaik, but maybe someone can enlighten me?

Annecy would pay for it (i.e. "Annecy-Semnoz").

Annecy seems guaranteed to have a stage in 2013 or the year after.

Could be another ITT though.