Tour de France 2015 Stage 9: Vannes-Plumelec 28 km TTT

[MTroon]

Re:

Are the individual times available somewhere? (those who were dropped by the teams)

Same question here. CN used to post individual times for TTT stage results. Is that info available?

 

[Ataraxus]

Re: Re:

Ah there we go people are overrating tj again. Not 1 mountain done in the tour and he's already on the podium.

It's always the same with tj in this forum.

As if he is the one getting overrated too much. Contador won the "Who will win the Tour-poll"…

Those polls most often show what people wish for. So just show that Berto is more loved.

This doesn't mean one mustn't make fun of their wishful thinkings. Wishful thinkings coming from july users get ridiculed constantly TBH

It was not my intent to make fun of anyone. My point was that I think many posters tend to overrate Contadors chances. I don't believe he will podium and I believe Tejay will beat him in the end. Simple as that. With that said, I am still cautious. The race is far from over and we will have to see how everyones legs responds when they hit the mountains.

I am quite aware of the fact. In fact "make fun of" was a poor choice of words by me. What I had in mind was the process of pointing out the illogical and blind predictions and statements some people make in this forum.
People in here bash the user who predicts Froome will drop all the 4 top guns in the mur or the users who predict he wont lose time to Contador and Quintana on the cobbles and rest in silence when a blind Contador fanboy predicts Basso and Rogers will drop all the Astanas bar Aru and Landa on the Cervinia climb.
Moreover, when someone else tries to point out these types of irrationality they somehow try to gang up and start with the name callings and stuff.

Anyway, I wish the top guns have good form on the mountains and attack. In the end spectacular racing prevails IMO

 

[Jagartrott]

Ramira makes some good points which she supports by data. That's nice to see, instead of very speculative and/or emotive arguments made by some. On today's race: I thought Contador actually looked quite spent at the end, if you compare to Froome, Quintana, Teejay.

 

[Frosty]

Re: Re:

Are the individual times available somewhere? (those who were dropped by the teams)

Same question here. CN used to post individual times for TTT stage results. Is that info available?

Yeah i was wondering about those too. They aren't on the letour site either for the stage but they must have been calculated for the GC as, for instance, Peter Kennaugh has gone from being at +47 minutes to +52 minutes.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Spare a thought for all the team staff who will be driving the buses and cars for the 700km drive tonight!

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

Froome will have to be careful who to mark.

I doubt he will mark anyone, I'd bet he is the first of the big 4 to attack on Tuesday.

What if Quintana goes from far out?
When Froome should respond?
An immediate answer could cost him. The rest could benefit.

I am one of the few posters who don't like to speculate what one rider would do versus another. I take life like really unpredictable. Anybody can still have a chance.

Having said that, I'll tell you one thing I know for certain, Quintana will not attack from far away. He has even said it several times that he learned his lesson well. He has to be completely out of it to do that. At that point nobody cares.

So, bit by bit everyday?
That's nice too.
Although I would like the race to be turned upside down at a point. At least that's how I think they should put Sky under pressure. Tuesday might not be the good day for that, but the Thursday certainly is and the Wednesday to some extent.

+1. That's what I think. Similar to the third week of Tour 2013. This is Froome we are talking about. Going against him in a long range attack would be a suicide. And he is very strong in the mountains. If he can keep in contact until the last few kilometers he can start taking time bit by bit.

 

[Walkman]

If anything, recovery is one of Contador's biggest assets. And I say that despite the fact that I really dislike the man. Flo's post is actually pretty spot on. Just look at how insane 2011 was. The Giro was crazy hard and he dominated it. Came to the Tour and rode like crazy. Cracked at the queen stage but launched a long-ranged attack the day after and still managed to finish third (?) on that stage. Then finished third in the ITT behind a Evans and Martin. Talk about recovery. I'd say the only one with better recover would probably be Andy. He was incredible in that sense. Too bad he didn't seemed to have the mental toughness to match his talent.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re: Re:

OGE any one
poor guys
lost 3 men already.

Presumably a team training ride, over/under c. 5mins behind. Absolutely no point pushing hard enough to not finish with 6.

I'd make a good bookie

 

[Escarabajo]

If anything, recovery is one of Contador's biggest assets. And I say that despite the fact that I really dislike the man. Flo's post is actually pretty spot on. Just look at how insane 2011 was. The Giro was crazy hard and he dominated it. Came to the Tour and rode like crazy. Cracked at the queen stage but launched a long-ranged attack the day after and still managed to finish third (?) on that stage. Then finished third in the ITT behind a Evans and Martin. Talk about recovery. I'd say the only one with better recover would probably be Andy. He was incredible in that sense. Too bad he didn't seemed to have the mental toughness to match his talent.

Once you crack the theory goes out the window. IMHO.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Re:

Spare a thought for all the team staff who will be driving the buses and cars for the 700km drive tonight!

Indeed. Should have started a couple of hours earlier today really, with that in mind.

 

[Walkman]

If anything, recovery is one of Contador's biggest assets. And I say that despite the fact that I really dislike the man. Flo's post is actually pretty spot on. Just look at how insane 2011 was. The Giro was crazy hard and he dominated it. Came to the Tour and rode like crazy. Cracked at the queen stage but launched a long-ranged attack the day after and still managed to finish third (?) on that stage. Then finished third in the ITT behind a Evans and Martin. Talk about recovery. I'd say the only one with better recover would probably be Andy. He was incredible in that sense. Too bad he didn't seemed to have the mental toughness to match his talent.

Once you crack the theory goes out the window. IMHO.

Huh?

He cracked on the stage, hence, stamina was the problem. Recovered superb to the next day and went at it like crazy.

 

[Vasilis]

Re:

Ramira makes some good points which she supports by data. That's nice to see, instead of very speculative and/or emotive arguments made by some. On today's race: I thought Contador actually looked quite spent at the end, if you compare to Froome, Quintana, Teejay.

Well, looking at Quintana's face will never tell you anything anyway.

 

[SeriousSam]

If anything, recovery is one of Contador's biggest assets. And I say that despite the fact that I really dislike the man. Flo's post is actually pretty spot on. Just look at how insane 2011 was. The Giro was crazy hard and he dominated it. Came to the Tour and rode like crazy. Cracked at the queen stage but launched a long-ranged attack the day after and still managed to finish third (?) on that stage. Then finished third in the ITT behind a Evans and Martin. Talk about recovery. I'd say the only one with better recover would probably be Andy. He was incredible in that sense. Too bad he didn't seemed to have the mental toughness to match his talent.

If I had to guess when Contador had better recovery, in 2011 or in 2015, I'd guess 2011. Age and wear & tear. He was a very high level at an early age.

 

[sir fly]

Re: Re:

+1. That's what I think. Similar to the third week of Tour 2013. This is Froome we are talking about. Going against him in a long range attack would be a suicide. And he is very strong in the mountains. If he can keep in contact until the last few kilometers he can start taking time bit by bit.

What would you offer for a Bagnères-de-Bigorre 2013 stage rerun.
It was like if there was a GC contender more in the group, Froome would have been cracked. This time there is a GC contender more in the race.
That's on my mind.

 

[RedheadDane]

Got a bit of a question:

During the stage today I noticed that Hagen was wearing his ITT champion's kit, at first I thought that I'd simply misunderstood the no ITT champion's kits during TTT rule, but then I noticed that neither Dowsett, Malori, Porte, or Uran were wearing their ITT champion's kits.
Neither were any of the other ITT champions which I'd forgotten about, such as Jungels, obviously Sagan and Teklehaimanot weren't wearing theirs either, due to wearing leadership jerseys.
So, does anyone know why Hagen was riding in his ITT champion's kit?

 

[sir fly]

Re:

Got a bit of a question:

During the stage today I noticed that Hagen was wearing his ITT champion's kit, at first I thought that I'd simply misunderstood the no ITT champion's kits during TTT rule, but then I noticed that neither Dowsett, Malori, Porte, or Uran were wearing their ITT champion's kits.
Neither were any of the other ITT champions which I'd forgotten about, such as Jungels, obviously Sagan and Teklehaimanot weren't wearing theirs either, due to wearing leadership jerseys.
So, does anyone know why Hagen was riding in his ITT champion's kit?

Maybe he spilled coffee on the regular kit.

 

[Escarabajo]

If anything, recovery is one of Contador's biggest assets. And I say that despite the fact that I really dislike the man. Flo's post is actually pretty spot on. Just look at how insane 2011 was. The Giro was crazy hard and he dominated it. Came to the Tour and rode like crazy. Cracked at the queen stage but launched a long-ranged attack the day after and still managed to finish third (?) on that stage. Then finished third in the ITT behind a Evans and Martin. Talk about recovery. I'd say the only one with better recover would probably be Andy. He was incredible in that sense. Too bad he didn't seemed to have the mental toughness to match his talent.

Once you crack the theory goes out the window. IMHO.

Huh?

He cracked on the stage, hence, stamina was the problem. Recovered superb to the next day and went at it like crazy.

What about if he cracks on one day this Tour and loses 10 minutes. Then he gains 3 minutes in the following three stages. Would you call that great recovery?
Please remember that the other GC contenders are not watching him anymore.
And depending on the reason of the crack (which we usually don't know) we can say that for one day he did not have great recovery. And that was enough to destroy his chances. It has happened to many cyclists in the past.

 

[ggusta]

Re: Re:

Sky and Tinkoff had roughly the same time up the climb. Movistar was fastest up followed by BMC. Quintana and Contador will have to go on the offensive. Nibali is pretty much done on GC unless he goes ballistic on descents. would probably need to team with Contador who is the only GC guy who goes downhill like a madman, but then would have to find a way to put time into him.

I don't know that I've ever seen Froome ride smart with a GT lead. That's his only problem. He's the strongest and that's how he rides. There's a real risk he tries to respond to too many attacks and blows himself (I don't know that any one rider can blow him up).

[Sorry in advance, I don't see it as simple to multi quote as it used to be. I may have created a mess. ]

Perrico, I agree, I cannot see him dislodging cf without assistance from other ppl on other teams. Oleg !!! I lay some responsibility at your feet for getting rid of Riis. But of course, AC also set out against the odds trying to do the double, so there is that, too. Fun viewing should ensue! It will take multiple concerted attacks to get rid of Froome. He looks very good. But I think AC has looked better the last couple days.

I didn't watch, I pretty much had a good idea TS was losing time today, I guess, what, 25 seconds or so? could be worse or better. I knew the double was a longshot, it's not over, but it will be another epic thriller if he manages to pull this out (assuming no crash by cf). AC has etched his name among the greats for winning GT's against the odds, but this could be a bridge too far. Still, his fans (and I) hold out hope!!

Publicus, if Wikipedia doesn't err, (!!) the only GT's in which Froome has had the lead other than the '13 tdf was '11 Vuelta in my quick look. He lost a 20 second lead to Wiggins the day after he took red on a tt. But I enjoyed reading Cobo taking red from Wiggins on the Angliru and holding it! So I presume you must mean the tdf leadership in 2013. Or did I miss others? (Always possible!)

Disappointed, but not surprised by today's outcome. It could be epic. It would have to be. Barring some misfortune for Sky, which would be bad and anti-climactic. I would love to see AC somehow pull this out by a miracle and not win by default.

 

[Taxus4a]

BMC won the TT becouse thay handled better the last climb, but SKy showed the strong team they have and especially Froome.
anyway would have been an stronger team with Nieve on the mountains... We will see if they can handle all the attacks... froome said now his rivals must do something, but I thing SKy will hit first nin la Pierre. Next days pureclimbers will be better, forst mountain finist, especially one climb is no so good for pure climbers, after the flat...but of quintana qant to win le Tour must be with Froome

 

[Walkman]

Re: Re:

This would make most of us think that you overrate TJ's chances.

Sure, I mean, it's just my opinion. I think Tejay will be much stronger than most people had thought before the Tour. I put him at 4 on my top-10 ahead of Contador. And I could see him beating Nibali too, but as of now there is still too early to tell. But he seems to have progressed bit by bit over the years and looks leaner than ever and still packs enough raw power to do well in TT's so I think he will cause some problems for the guys fighting for a podium spot.

But hey, I might be totally wrong and Tejay could be dropped like a stone as soon as the race his the mountains. Of course, there is no way to be sure. But I do think he will do very well.

 

[cantpedal]

Re: Re:

Froome will have to be careful who to mark.

I doubt he will mark anyone, I'd bet he is the first of the big 4 to attack on Tuesday.

What if Quintana goes from far out?
When Froome should respond?
An immediate answer could cost him. The rest could benefit.

I am one of the few posters who don't like to speculate what one rider would do versus another. I take life like really unpredictable. Anybody can still have a chance.

Having said that, I'll tell you one thing I know for certain, Quintana will not attack from far away. He has even said it several times that he learned his lesson well. He has to be completely out of it to do that. At that point nobody cares.

So, bit by bit everyday?
That's nice too.
Although I would like the race to be turned upside down at a point. At least that's how I think they should put Sky under pressure. Tuesday might not be the good day for that, but the Thursday certainly is and the Wednesday to some extent.

There is no mystery We've seen what CF will do over and over again. He will ride his own pace. Slowly pull you back and then attack with an extreme effort for 3 to 5 min then back to that same grinding pace

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Genuine question:

Re: Doping talk only in the Clinic etc.
Once it is fact a rider has a conviction are we meant to ignore it happened on this side of the Forum?
Claiming AC as a 9 GT winner seems ridiculous to me in a side which sticks only to facts.We may as well herald Lance and Riis as clean.
Surely this is fact-only, no innuendo. Or is it ok because people like him because he's good and doesn't ride for Sky/not Anglo?

What's the rule? Is it porous for he and certain (he's not the only one) Spaniards?
He's won 7. That's not guesswork. It's fact.
Can we stick to cycling and not fanboyism? Or not?

Where did you get the idea that this side is about facts? Facts has very little to do with anything posted here. 75% of everything posted here is about personal opinion. No matter what you believe, you just have to do your best to not let others' opinions upset you.

Besides, who's really to say what's a fact? For example, LA can claim it's a fact that he won 7 Tours. After all he was there, he was on top of the podium, he still has his maillots jaunes. Of course, you can be of the opinion that "fact" is whatever is in the official record book. You can also think of it this way: Lance won 7 tours. He was then stripped of those titles. Semantics, I know, but if he or someone else says he won 7 Tours is that really untrue? It would be different if he said "I officially hold 7 Tour de France titles"

In other words, you just can't let yourself be bothered by what other people think around here. I've certainly got my opinions on the GT wins(or non-wins)of LA, AC, DiLuca, Menchov, Heras, Landis, Periero, Schleck, etc...and they're not neccessarily consistent.

Re: the rule it's simple - no actual or inferred doping talk. So someone can say AC won 9 GTs but they can't say AC won 9 GTs on go on about contamination, testing, etc...

You can respond with in the record books he has 7 but you can't say AC only won 7 because he's a "___" and was using "___" , etc...

Just easy to draw the line that way. If you want to get into real details take it to the clinic. And yes, all the top riders will have their fanboys. No way around that.

 

[ggusta]

Genuine question:

Re: Doping talk only in the Clinic etc.
Once it is fact a rider has a conviction are we meant to ignore it happened on this side of the Forum?
Claiming AC as a 9 GT winner seems ridiculous to me in a side which sticks only to facts.We may as well herald Lance as clean.

He's won 7. That's not guesswork. It's fact.

Worth repeating.

(And this is precisely why I lump CoNtador fanboys with the lance fans of lore. If you are to repeat that he has won 9 (as he does himself - which is just another reason to treat him like a cancer on cycling) then you have to give lance his seven. Why not give pollentier the 1978 TDF while you are at it and make hinault only a four time winner, and on and on). It's like you have to enter a fantasy world where you switch all the results to what you WISH they had been.)

I do not see any post quoted. Who is stating it? Or am I required to sift thru tens of thousands of posts....

There are legitimate times where I have stated for the purpose of a discussion, and you merely need to go back to my posts during this year's Giro, that he won the race ON THE ROAD where it was subsequently vacated, taken away, awarded to Andy, etc. I usually (I say usually, but AFAIR, I always state explicitly the win was subsequently taken away.)

Can you at least quote what/who you are talking about? Otherwise you just sort of look like you have this general pre-conceived notion of any Contador fan... And then I get this general pre-conceived notion of any Contador hater....
{edited}
Your message contains too many smilies. The maximum number of smilies allowed is 5.

The comment and subsequent reply smacks of strawman faux-sophistry, imho.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

BMC won the TT becouse thay handled better the last climb, but SKy showed the strong team they have and especially Froome.
anyway would have been an stronger team with Nieve on the mountains... We will see if they can handle all the attacks... froome said now his rivals must do something, but I thing SKy will hit first nin la Pierre. Next days pureclimbers will be better, forst mountain finist, especially one climb is no so good for pure climbers, after the flat...but of quintana qant to win le Tour must be with Froome

Sky would have won the TTT if they did not have to wait for Roche who was really struggling on the final climb. I was actually surprised with his team selection.

 

[BrentonOfTheNorth]

I was surprised to see so many riders carrying water bottles. I mistakenly thought that they were useless for a 32 minute time trial. What is the minimum TT length that riders start carrying water?