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Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier 183k

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How long can you keep saying Bardet is 2nd tier? He's close to getting his second podium in the race in 2 years and the previous 2 years he finished inside the top 10, has won a stage in the last 3 Tours, has performed well in the last 4 Dauphines and shown up in a couple of one day races. I guess his poor TT would be the only thing you could pick out that keeps him from being top tier.
 
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yaco said:
DFA123 said:
carolina said:
Being away from Gerrans makes wonders.
I was pretty obvious at the time, and it's even more glaring now, that Orica backed the wrong horse in that little dispute.

What ! Matthews got an offer too good to refuse and one which Orica couldn't match - Bear in mind I posted around April last year that Matthews was leaving, a month before it was publically announced - Matthews was hardly left out in the cold - Was one of Orica's two leaders at the 2016 TDF and was an important part of the bronze medal TT squad at the Olympics.
It was before that. The tensions were there from early 2015, when both were competing at the same races and sprinting against each other. At that point they should have gone 100% with Matthews as leader. Instead they went mostly with Gerrans and made Matthews determined to leave. Orica could have kept him if they'd have shown more faith in him earlier for sure.
 
Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Gigs_98 said:
One really has to wonder how strong this years Froome is compared with 2015 Quintana, 2014 Nibali, 2014 Contador or also 2013-2015 Froome. Yeah Froome seems to be completely in control but I have the feeling Froome is actually heavily declining but still wins because the current gc rider generation is just really not strong. We had a few years in which a few riders (basically the big 4) were clearly stronger than everyone else but now that they are past their prime, or in horrible shape (I refuse to believe that Quintana's prime was when he was 25) there is nobody left who can replace them so the one who has declined the least is still strong enough to win the tour.

Froome is just doing enough to win and no more. Anytime anyone has attacked he has bridged over quite easily. In fact bar a 250 metre steep incline finish he has looked unbreakable. It is mind numbingly boring to watch since he has sucked wheels and ridden on the sky train all tour but once he got 30+ seconds on the opening day TT he has been in defensive mode all race. He knows that he will take at least 30 seconds on all other GC contenders in the final TT.
 
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DFA123 said:
What a disastrous race this is. Kittel, Valverde, Sagan, Demare, Majka, Gilbert, Cavendish, Izagirre, Porte, Gesink, Pinot and Thomas all crashing out or DQs. Contador, Quintana and Chaves all physically in pieces.

So we're left with a bunch of crap sprinters and a load of 2nd tier GC riders who seem content to battle amongst themselves for 2nd place. All of this taking place on a terrible route.

This is right down there with the 2012 edition.
The worst tours were 1999-2005, 2006, and the one where Rasmusson was removed. Skewed by the haters of cycling, relegated. I think this has been a great tour. Sorry to see Sagan pulled and riders hurt, but this is the tour. Things happen
 
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movingtarget said:
DFA123 said:
What a disastrous race this is. Kittel, Valverde, Sagan, Demare, Majka, Gilbert, Cavendish, Izagirre, Porte, Gesink, Pinot and Thomas all crashing out or DQs. Contador, Quintana and Chaves all physically in pieces.

So we're left with a bunch of crap sprinters and a load of 2nd tier GC riders who seem content to battle amongst themselves for 2nd place. All of this taking place on a terrible route.

This is right down there with the 2012 edition.

As far as the GC riders go Porte was probably the only one in that group that might still be competitive and he has never podiumed but was looking as good as anyone else on the climbs. I think the change over to the next generation of GC riders is already happening. Froome possibly only has two more good years. Nibali, Contador are past their best as well as Valverde who can still do well in the classics and one week races. Quintana will be ruing the fact that he chose to do the Giro this year as up until now he may not have had a better opportunity to beat Froome. His TT has improved and the TTs were short and there were enough climbs to make a difference for him.


These kinda of parcours with dodgy downhills and crashes are going to be de rigueur going forward as the french have theirs guys up there wining stages and high on GC ...we will just see more of the same
 
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vcampbell said:
"UAE are working for Team Sky. Has there been a more negative team in this year's Tour de France? They have a rider up the road. They'll argue that they're protecting Meinjtes overall position but this has been their tactic throughout the mountains. Why are they not allowing Team Sky to do all the work?"

Love you, Susan!

Susan has hardly proved herself to be a credible analyst.
 
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StryderHells said:
How long can you keep saying Bardet is 2nd tier? He's close to getting his second podium in the race in 2 years and the previous 2 years he finished inside the top 10, has won a stage in the last 3 Tours, has performed well in the last 4 Dauphines and shown up in a couple of one day races. I guess his poor TT would be the only thing you could pick out that keeps him from being top tier.

If Bardet is second tier then he is an over achiever. What most people didn't pick is Uran's return to form and Froome's inability to crack the other contenders in the mountains.
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
DFA123 said:
carolina said:
Being away from Gerrans makes wonders.
I was pretty obvious at the time, and it's even more glaring now, that Orica backed the wrong horse in that little dispute.

What ! Matthews got an offer too good to refuse and one which Orica couldn't match - Bear in mind I posted around April last year that Matthews was leaving, a month before it was publically announced - Matthews was hardly left out in the cold - Was one of Orica's two leaders at the 2016 TDF and was an important part of the bronze medal TT squad at the Olympics.

Agree with the thrust of what you've said but your final statement should read bronze medal TTT squad at Road Worlds not Olympics.

The Gerrans issue realistically had next to nothing to do with Matthews move as Gerrans was most likely to retire at the end of this season and would not have been given any precedence over Matthews at any peak races.

Quite simply, Matthews wanted to pursue the Green Jersey and Orica were unwilling to commit to supporting that alongside their growing GC focus. His wish to try cobbles was also a factor, one that may/may not have been accomodated to some degree but Sunweb offered both as well as $$$$. Both parties probably made correct calls at the time. Matthews may well face the same issue when TomD decides to pursue the Tour and his needs run up against Bling's ..... interesting times ahead !
 
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StryderHells said:
How long can you keep saying Bardet is 2nd tier? He's close to getting his second podium in the race in 2 years and the previous 2 years he finished inside the top 10, has won a stage in the last 3 Tours, has performed well in the last 4 Dauphines and shown up in a couple of one day races. I guess his poor TT would be the only thing you could pick out that keeps him from being top tier.


I agree ...this idea that riders that are within seconds of Froome and his very very strong team are second tier is rubbish and anyone saying so are just full of sour grapes

Bardet, Aru and even Uran are not second tier...look around things have moved on
 
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wouterkaas said:
Team Sky might have lost the lead in the team classification, if anybody cares about that :lol:

Not quite. Leading by 28 seconds now.

In past 20 years, the team with overall winner has won the classification in 2007, 2008 and 2009. All those were teams which didn't really have a single leader in the beginning but several cards to play.

2007 Discovery: Leipheimer and Contador
2008 CSC: Sastre and Schleck bros
2009 Astana: Contador, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer
 
Re: Re:

HelloDolly said:
StryderHells said:
How long can you keep saying Bardet is 2nd tier? He's close to getting his second podium in the race in 2 years and the previous 2 years he finished inside the top 10, has won a stage in the last 3 Tours, has performed well in the last 4 Dauphines and shown up in a couple of one day races. I guess his poor TT would be the only thing you could pick out that keeps him from being top tier.


I agree ...this idea that riders that are within seconds of Froome and his very very strong team are second tier is rubbish and anyone saying so are just full of sour grapes

Bardet, Aru and even Uran are not second tier...look around things have moved on
They are 1st tier, but I think the reason why people say they are 2nd tier is because the current 1st tier gc riders don't look as strong as the 1st tier 2 or 3 years ago.
 
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arvc40 said:
Brullnux said:
It's quite a weak Tour in terms of calibre. Probably weakest since 2008? Or 2012 actually, outside of the top three

It's not weak, this is modern cycling, get used to it.

Huh? Not really. See:

DFA123 said:
What a disastrous race this is. Kittel, Valverde, Sagan, Demare, Majka, Gilbert, Cavendish, Izagirre, Porte, Gesink, Pinot and Thomas all crashing out or DQs. Contador, Quintana and Chaves all physically in pieces.

So we're left with a bunch of crap sprinters and a load of 2nd tier GC riders who seem content to battle amongst themselves for 2nd place. All of this taking place on a terrible route.

This is right down there with the 2012 edition.
 
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Re: Re:

Finn84 said:
wouterkaas said:
Team Sky might have lost the lead in the team classification, if anybody cares about that :lol:

Not quite. Leading by 28 seconds now.

In past 20 years, the team with overall winner has won the classification in 2007, 2008 and 2009. All those were teams which didn't really have a single leader in the beginning but several cards to play.

2007 Discovery: Leipheimer and Contador
2008 CSC: Sastre and Schleck bros
2009 Astana: Contador, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer
I see you're right. I always wonder whether teams really care about it, if they're battling for GC as well.

edit: I always thought they took the time of the first 4 riders, but it's the first 3 apparently.
 
Best rider toady? Landa - seemed to hardly break a sweat. Sky must be desperate to keep him. Baring a landslide or being struck by lightning, I think Froome has this all sewn up.

Chapeau Roglic! Shame for Kittel to go out to a crash - 5 stage wins must help the pain. Green Bling! :)
 
Re: Re:

wouterkaas said:
Finn84 said:
wouterkaas said:
Team Sky might have lost the lead in the team classification, if anybody cares about that :lol:

Not quite. Leading by 28 seconds now.

In past 20 years, the team with overall winner has won the classification in 2007, 2008 and 2009. All those were teams which didn't really have a single leader in the beginning but several cards to play.

2007 Discovery: Leipheimer and Contador
2008 CSC: Sastre and Schleck bros
2009 Astana: Contador, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer
I see you're right. I always wonder whether teams really care about it, if they're battling for GC as well.

edit: I always thought they took the time of the first 4 riders, but it's the first 3 apparently.
Sky are winning by over 10 minutes
 
Re:

DFA123 said:
What a disastrous race this is. Kittel, Valverde, Sagan, Demare, Majka, Gilbert, Cavendish, Izagirre, Porte, Gesink, Pinot and Thomas all crashing out or DQs. Contador, Quintana and Chaves all physically in pieces.

So we're left with a bunch of crap sprinters and a load of 2nd tier GC riders who seem content to battle amongst themselves for 2nd place. All of this taking place on a terrible route.

This is right down there with the 2012 edition.
Don't forget Fuglsang. It was set to be one of the strongest lineups in years :( . If Porte and Valverde were still here this race would be different for sure.
 
Re: Re:

greenedge said:
DFA123 said:
StryderHells said:
DFA123 said:
lol. Meintjes and Yates really are leeches.

It's pretty hard to hop on the front and pull if you can't
Yeah, that must be why they've taken about two pulls between them in their entire careers.

Orica and UAE always ride in a painfully negative way it seems.

That's unfair to Yates, he's won some great stages with attacks- Vuelta last year, PN and Romandie this year.

No point arguing with posters who spout hot air without any supporting evidence.
 
Re: Re:

Alexandre B. said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.
Which GC riders are 1st tier in GTs, in your opinion?

(I'm not saying Romain is 1st tier, I'm just curious)
At this point, only one and his name is Christopher Froome. Nairo is still the closest.
 

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