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Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier 183k

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DanielSong39 said:
bob.a.feet said:
Valv.Piti said:
Adam Yates is way worse than Simon Yates. Simon is actually a pretty aggressive racer, normally. Louis Meintjens, well, I have no comments. Leipheimer at least had a TT
The new generation really suck at TT. Must be good for Dumoulin knowing that, once Froome is gone, he'll have a 3 min buffer in most GTs.

Either that or hope Roglic/Dennis become GC riders. Point made.
If Pinot can battle his inconsistencies he could win the Tour. He can climb very well and on his day can do a great TT. I personally think he has a better chance of winning the Tour than Bardet.
 
Re: Tour de France 2017 Stage 17: La Mure > Serre-Chevalier

Good post as usual Dirk - A GC rider and green jersey rider can co-exist - Sagan has done wonderful work in the past to help his team in his quest for the green jersey - A rider like Cavendish and Kittel chasing the green jersey doesn't work because they lack the utility in hilly terrain - It depends on the rider.

If Matthews hadn't had his entire Team at disposal, he would never have managed to close the gap to Kittel. Matthews could ride in a team with a GC contender, but he would be only a stage hunter and never win the Green jersey. This will create conflicts next year, let alone Barguil who could target the GC himself and might not willing to sacrifice his chances and ride as a helper in order to enhance Tom's winning probability.
 
May 26, 2010
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Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

Dan Martin has won monuments!

Expectations from certain posters are way to high.
 
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Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
Matthews >>>> Gerro + Ewan

Stating the bleeding obvious with regards to the here and now. I personally regard Matthews as the most talented/has the widest skill set of the three ... maybe he will match Gerrans' palmares, maybe not. Ewan .... not even in the same post code as the other two.

Matthews made the correct call at the time to leave Orica who, probably quite rightly, decided that serious GJ pursuit alongside serious GC campaign weren't going to be compatible. It would seem that Orica has now made another correct call in saying "no more" to Gerrans ... or maybe he has said "its time to collect my retirement payout". Here's hoping they make another correct call next year in easing the completely incompatible Ewan out the door.
 
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Monstre du Cyclisme said:
Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.

Quintana is a top tier rider. He has shown his class. You dont lose that because of some bad days at 1 GT.

I dont even consider Froome a class rider.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Monstre du Cyclisme said:
Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.

Quintana is a top tier rider. He has shown his class. You dont lose that because of some bad days at 1 GT.

I dont even consider Froome a class rider.

About 17 bad days so far this GT.
 
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Monstre du Cyclisme said:
Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.
What?! That doesn't make sense. The "1st tier" is the people who can battle for a given goal (GC, sprints/points,...). While people may float around in the top tier due to things like form, injuries, sickness, age..., someone who is frequently in the top 10 and especially the top five is 1st tier. RU is first tier. The discussion about the best rider, is not same as the top tier.
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Monstre du Cyclisme said:
Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.

Quintana is a top tier rider. He has shown his class. You dont lose that because of some bad days at 1 GT.

I dont even consider Froome a class rider.

OMG-thats-unbelievable-GIF.gif
 
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carton said:
Quintana and Contador to floor it if there's anything in the tank. No one else (bar for Sky doms and breakaway artists) to do the same until Plan Lachat.
I was wrong. Quintana went even though there was nothing in the tank.

Chapeau to Roglic. What a way to hold a gap.

LOL at Bardet having a go at Uran for easing off the front once Froome was comfortably with them. Making more media hay for his TV attacks. I think Voeckler might have found a succesor.
 
Landa looks like the complete antithesis to Froome. Looks good on a bike, churns a big gear, very little movement and races with panache. Froome on the other hand is moving all over the place, bobbing up and down looking at his power meter, elbows jutted out, high cadence and looks awful on a bike. Logic would tell you that Landa's style is the more effective but Froome simply defies logic.
 
Tier 1 riders are riders that are able to win a race if every contender were competing for it. Regarding GTs, currently this is only Froome or maybe Dumoulin with a parcours really suited to his characteristics. All other riders have no chance winning a GT against those 2 barring any unforeseeable incidents that have nothing to do with pure strength.
 
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Eyeballs Out said:
wouterkaas said:
Finn84 said:
wouterkaas said:
Team Sky might have lost the lead in the team classification, if anybody cares about that :lol:

Not quite. Leading by 28 seconds now.

In past 20 years, the team with overall winner has won the classification in 2007, 2008 and 2009. All those were teams which didn't really have a single leader in the beginning but several cards to play.

2007 Discovery: Leipheimer and Contador
2008 CSC: Sastre and Schleck bros
2009 Astana: Contador, Armstrong, Klöden, Leipheimer
I see you're right. I always wonder whether teams really care about it, if they're battling for GC as well.

edit: I always thought they took the time of the first 4 riders, but it's the first 3 apparently.
Sky are winning by over 10 minutes

I stand corrected, looked at stage classification.
 
A classy ride from Roglic today. He's obviously got great recuperation and so could certainly turn out to be a contender in GTs.

Apart from Kiri dropping Henao and Mike Flowers dropping Mike Snow, it was a normal day at the office for the Sky train. Bardet was the one who had to drop Uran and Froome. He tried a couple of times, but failed. Uran was only interested in dropping Froome and when that did not happen, he had no incentive to pull.

Bad luck for Kittel to have such a crash, just when the battle for the green jersey was hotting up.

Edit: I understand and Orica's UAE's tactics, but as a spectator, it ended up helping the strongest team.
 
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Re: Re:

Valv.Piti said:
DFA123 said:
What a disastrous race this is. Kittel, Valverde, Sagan, Demare, Majka, Gilbert, Cavendish, Izagirre, Porte, Gesink, Pinot and Thomas all crashing out or DQs. Contador, Quintana and Chaves all physically in pieces.

So we're left with a bunch of crap sprinters and a load of 2nd tier GC riders who seem content to battle amongst themselves for 2nd place. All of this taking place on a terrible route.

This is right down there with the 2012 edition.
Hmm. I think this a a little bit, tiny bit better than 2009, 2012 and 2016. Just due to the fact its still relatively close, but its not good, its not good at all.

It makes me admire the Tour of 2013 even more. Froome was just amazing in the first two weeks. A really strong Quintana and Purito, a good Valverde, a decent Tinkoff squad.

I agree, this year's Tour is really poor if you look at the overall level. Froome is just average this season, but there are no true rivals this year. Well, there's only one, but he rides in the same team
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Monstre du Cyclisme said:
Benotti69 said:
Valv.Piti said:
Ridiculous to suggest Urán is first tier based on this. Aru aint either. Bardet? The closest to Froome - in this race - but not 1st tier in my book either.

What qualifies a rider as 1st tier?

Uran finised 2nd twice at Il Giro.

Aru won a GT, jeez if that dont make you a 1st Tier, then nothing does!

In my point of you, at the moment we only have 1 1/2 Tier 1 rider. One is, obviously, Froome. The other one might be Dumoulin depending on the parcours and strength of his team. Quintana was a Tier 1 rider but has deteriorated considerably and first must fight back to be called in one sentence with Froome.

Quintana is a top tier rider. He has shown his class. You dont lose that because of some bad days at 1 GT.

I dont even consider Froome a class rider.

What? He block you on Twitter? :lol: :lol:

giphy.gif
 
Re: Re:

yaco said:
DFA123 said:
yaco said:
DFA123 said:
carolina said:
Being away from Gerrans makes wonders.
I was pretty obvious at the time, and it's even more glaring now, that Orica backed the wrong horse in that little dispute.

What ! Matthews got an offer too good to refuse and one which Orica couldn't match - Bear in mind I posted around April last year that Matthews was leaving, a month before it was publically announced - Matthews was hardly left out in the cold - Was one of Orica's two leaders at the 2016 TDF and was an important part of the bronze medal TT squad at the Olympics.
It was before that. The tensions were there from early 2015, when both were competing at the same races and sprinting against each other. At that point they should have gone 100% with Matthews as leader. Instead they went mostly with Gerrans and made Matthews determined to leave. Orica could have kept him if they'd have shown more faith in him earlier for sure.

i KNOW all about the tensions between Matthews and Gerrans - Every sporting team in the WORLD has tensions between different athletes - I posted that Matthews was a team leader at the 2016 TDF even after he informed Orica he was leaving for Sunweb in 2017 - Matthews was a leader at many races from 2014 to 2016 - Reckon if I am posting in April 2016 that Matthews was leaving Orica, suggests I have some idea of the internal workings - Some of the rumblings between Gerrans and Matthews were actually because of the attitude of the selectors at the 2014 and 2015 World's - When you have selectors giving Gerrans 4 support riders and Matthews three support riders you are courting disaster - And Gerrans still complains about Evans winning the 2009 World Championship when Gerrans was the alleged protected rider - And none of these events occurred under the Orica banner - At the end of the day, Matthews got an offer too good to refuse and I posted at the time that it could hurt Orica - Anyway you continue posting opinions and I'll post facts.

I have seen you post this more than once yet your post also has opinions.
You are also not necessarily posting facts - "reckon if I am posting in April that Matthews was leaving Orica, suggests I have some idea of the internal workings," does not qualify what you post as 'facts'.
You seem to get heated in discussions and thus resort to dismissing someone else's opinions as irrelevant in comparison to your 'facts.' (Before you call me out, that is my opinion, I know it is not a fact.)
If you truly had facts that clearly contradicted that poster I would be more sympathetic to you.
Lastly, your syntax could be improved.