Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[Norbea]

Re:

Having looked at the whole sprint again I think Greipel´s regrets are in order. The guy is all over the place and might be the one who cause Sagan to make the right shift that ultimately brings Cav down.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Haha. Before this year, I honestly thought you were somewhat childish when it came to Sagan, but I must admit that he has acted like a completely fool off and on the bike this year. I can't foul you for this decision.

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

I knew it. After Sagan was relegated and got points penalty, there was only one person who could determine the panel to change their decision and DQ him.

 

[canarydan23]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

As a big Cavendish fan I was absolutely raging when I watched it in real time. Sagan both squeezed him out and stuck his elbow in. There were acres of space to his left and no need to drift across as he did. He knew Cavendish was there. If he didn't, he shouldn't be racing professionally.

As for the punishment, yeah it's brutal but at the end of the day, his at best reckless and at worse outright malicious actions has ruined Cavendish's Tour, so why shouldn't he have his ruined as well?

Deduct him points and rule him out of the green points jersey might be satisfactory for some, but how is it going to look if he goes and bags himself a couple more stage wins later on after his own stupidity/malice (delete depending on your level of naivety) has prevented another from bagging himself a couple of stage wins?

Maybe it's a bit harsh but Sagan shouldn't get angry at the judges for it. He should be angry at himself.

Sagan is doing almost all his sprints the way what he did today and never happened that.None of the riders was complain about it.He can not be angry with himself because he didn't have much option there(not space at left).
That was more fear some even after take his points and still win green.Lol more media target then actually yellow guy.Not good for tour.

Eh? Sagan had nowhere to go? How about the 12 feet of empty tarmac to his left?!

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

I can't find footage of the first crash, anyone?

Here is a zoomed pic of who was down

https://i.imgur.com/yQmxY4B.png

Cheers mate

An even closer view. Was Nairo down?

https://i.imgur.com/EVs1Z4s.png

None of the Movistars were down! Read their statement for Christ sake!

 

[Bavarianrider]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

What a *** disgrace! If they don't Change their decision we all shouldn't watch a single second of this Tour anymore!!

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Haha. Before this year, I honestly thought you were somewhat childish when it came to Sagan, but I must admit that he has acted like a completely fool off and on the bike this year. I can't foul you for this decision.

You are still too emotional about Valverde vacation.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Haha. Before this year, I honestly thought you were somewhat childish when it came to Sagan, but I must admit that he has acted like a completely fool off and on the bike this year. I can't foul you for this decision.

You are still too emotional about Valverde vacation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Valverde. Absolutely nothing.

 

[KGB]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

As a big Cavendish fan I was absolutely raging when I watched it in real time. Sagan both squeezed him out and stuck his elbow in. There were acres of space to his left and no need to drift across as he did. He knew Cavendish was there. If he didn't, he shouldn't be racing professionally.

As for the punishment, yeah it's brutal but at the end of the day, his at best reckless and at worse outright malicious actions has ruined Cavendish's Tour, so why shouldn't he have his ruined as well?

Deduct him points and rule him out of the green points jersey might be satisfactory for some, but how is it going to look if he goes and bags himself a couple more stage wins later on after his own stupidity/malice (delete depending on your level of naivety) has prevented another from bagging himself a couple of stage wins?

Maybe it's a bit harsh but Sagan shouldn't get angry at the judges for it. He should be angry at himself.

Sagan is doing almost all his sprints the way what he did today and never happened that.None of the riders was complain about it.He can not be angry with himself because he didn't have much option there(not space at left).
That was more fear some even after take his points and still win green.Lol more media target then actually yellow guy.Not good for tour.

Eh? Sagan had nowhere to go? How about the 12 feet of empty tarmac to his left?!

That side was too windy for Sagan face and hair.

 

[ToreBear]

Re: Re:

It's hard watching the crash and reconcile Sagan being thrown out of the tour with Demare not even getting relegated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0MgSNtiCI

Sagan is clearly endangering Cav when he changes his line, and it has consequences for Cav. But Demare looks to me to be changing his line in a much more dangerous way.

Funny how people can look at the same video and draw different conclusions. What I see is Demare moving to the right to avoid a near crash just ahead. You can see the two riders ahead of him touch. He had no choice since he was winding up for his final push. I also pretty clearly see Sagan throw an elbow into Cavendish, whether Cavendish was already on the way down or whether it was the coup de grace is hard to tell. I don't think it was Sagan's trademark "I have amazing mtb skills balance move, either...

I'm talking about the situation after that. When Demare only has Kristoff up ahead. In that situation Demare had a choice between continuing in his lane to the right of Kristoff and risk him closing the gap, or using Kristoffs wake to Slingshot past him to the left but also endangering those he would cross in front of. As far as I understand the rules, there is only one choice, and that is continuing on the right side of Kristoff, and if he closes him out, ce la vie.

As for Sagans elbow, I'm not sure it played such an important part. Still I think Sagan was in the wrong when he attempted to get to Demares wheel in front of Cav.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Haha. Before this year, I honestly thought you were somewhat childish when it came to Sagan, but I must admit that he has acted like a completely fool off and on the bike this year. I can't foul you for this decision.

You are still too emotional about Valverde vacation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Valverde. Absolutely nothing.

I don't buy that.

 

[canarydan23]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

As a big Cavendish fan I was absolutely raging when I watched it in real time. Sagan both squeezed him out and stuck his elbow in. There were acres of space to his left and no need to drift across as he did. He knew Cavendish was there. If he didn't, he shouldn't be racing professionally.

As for the punishment, yeah it's brutal but at the end of the day, his at best reckless and at worse outright malicious actions has ruined Cavendish's Tour, so why shouldn't he have his ruined as well?

Deduct him points and rule him out of the green points jersey might be satisfactory for some, but how is it going to look if he goes and bags himself a couple more stage wins later on after his own stupidity/malice (delete depending on your level of naivety) has prevented another from bagging himself a couple of stage wins?

Maybe it's a bit harsh but Sagan shouldn't get angry at the judges for it. He should be angry at himself.

Sagan is doing almost all his sprints the way what he did today and never happened that.None of the riders was complain about it.He can not be angry with himself because he didn't have much option there(not space at left).
That was more fear some even after take his points and still win green.Lol more media target then actually yellow guy.Not good for tour.

Eh? Sagan had nowhere to go? How about the 12 feet of empty tarmac to his left?!

That side was too windy for Sagan face and hair.

That's alright then, "It's a bit windy over there so I'll just move off my racing line in a sprint, squeeze someone into a barrier and then chuck my elbow into them for good measure".

 

[GreasyChain]

Why are so many complete morons allowed on the internet? There was no Sagan elbow into Cavendish. The elbow came out after the collision as he was trying to maintain his balance. As anybody who has ever been on a bike would know. This of course rules out 99% of this forum and 100% of the Clinic.

Fake news is fake news is just lies. No elbow. No DQ for the Sag. ASO can GTF!

 

[Valv.Piti]

You can buy whatever you want, but I think you are the one getting a little emotional, linking two completely unrelated events to each other. Dude, I frankly don't care. Believe what you want - the facts of the matter is Sagan is DSQ, no matter how much you disagree with that decision. It just happens that I agree with the decision, altho its surely harsh (like many others on this forum). There really isn't too much else to it. I know its hard getting used to and I know that it sucks, but I hope you'll refrain some personal attacks like these in the future because your all and everything was shown the door.

 

[canarydan23]

Re:

Why are so many complete morons allowed on the internet? There was no Sagan elbow into Cavendish. The elbow came out after the collision as he was trying to maintain his balance. As anybody who has ever been on a bike would know. This of course rules out 99% of this forum and 100% of the Clinic.

Fake news is fake news is just lies. No elbow. No DQ for the Sag. ASO can GTF!

Except he has been DQed, hasn't he?

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Congratulations!!

 

[Walkman]

Re:

Just wanted to say after watching it many times, even in slow motion, I don't think Sagan should have been DQ'd. There was way too much going on, and for Cav there was simply nowhere to go.

I should note I don't have a pony in the race, I like and respect both guys.

I am curious, how can you say there was nowhere for Cav to go?

http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

http://imgur.com/a/EkYSa

There is clearly space enough for Cav, but Sagan cuts infront of him and forces him into the barriers.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Well, it's been a long, arduous journey, but all that work I put in towards qualifying to be an advisor to the UCI's Commissaire's panel finally paid off and I've just started my new job! Wish me luck!

Sarcasm?

 

[ontheroad]

For the race as a spectacle, I'm sorry to see Sagan DQ. I still firmly believe he was reckless at best and instinctively malicious at worst. You could argue the decision all day long and still not get unanimous agreement. What I do find slightly ironic though is the level of sympathy for Sagan in comparison to Cavendish which is totally disproportionate given that Cavendish in this instance is both the victim and the rider suffering a bad injury as a result of Sagans actions.

For a tour with a serious amount of sprint stages Sagan will be missed but that should have no impact on the decision made. I would have been happy to see him relegated and deducted points but equally find it hard to disagree with the decision taken.

 

[deValtos]

To be honest the only video that should be used is the overhead heli shot as the rest provide very poor perspective.

 

[KGB]

Re:

You can buy whatever you want, but I think you are the one getting a little emotional, linking two completely unrelated events to each other. Dude, I frankly don't care. Believe what you want - the facts of the matter is Sagan is DSQ, no matter how much you disagree with that decision. It just happens that I agree with the decision, altho its surely harsh (like many others on this forum). There really isn't too much else to it. I know its hard getting used to and I know that it sucks, but I hope you'll refrain some personal attacks like these in the future because your all and everything was shown the door.

Apologize if you took like serious personal attack i should be probably banned for that.

 

[Kopuliak]

 

[Nacho]

This comes directly from the letour.fr website:

Having caused a serious crash towards the end of stage 4, Peter Sagan (Bora-Hansgrohe) has been excluded from the Tour de France by the commissaires panel. “We decided to disqualify Peter Sagan from the 2017 Tour de France because he endangered seriously several other riders including Mark Cavendish in the final meters of the sprint which happened in Vittel”, president commissaire Philippe Mariën stated. “We apply article 12.104 of the UCI regulations which allow us to disqualify a rider.

So, it appears Sagan was disqualified for more than just the Sagan-Cav interaction.

 

[Jericho]

Re:

To be honest the only video that should be used is the overhead heli shot as the rest provide very poor perspective.

You mean the one where there's a tree in the way at the most important moment?

 

[Jericho]

Re:

This comes directly from the letour.fr website:

Having caused a serious crash towards the end of stage 4, Peter Sagan (Bora-Hansgrohe) has been excluded from the Tour de France by the commissaires panel. “We decided to disqualify Peter Sagan from the 2017 Tour de France because he endangered seriously several other riders including Mark Cavendish in the final meters of the sprint which happened in Vittel”, president commissaire Philippe Mariën stated. “We apply article 12.104 of the UCI regulations which allow us to disqualify a rider.

So, it appears Sagan was disqualified for more than just the Sagan-Cav interaction.

Actually, no. Philippe Mariën confirmed Sagan’s expulsion was based solely on the crash with Cavendish, not an earlier spill in the sprint that some suggested Sagan might also have provoked