Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

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Who is going to win the stage?

  • Marcel Kittel

    Votes: 50 50.0%
  • André Greipel

    Votes: 5 5.0%
  • Mark Cavendish

    Votes: 6 6.0%
  • Sonny Colbrelli

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Arnaud Demare

    Votes: 15 15.0%
  • Peter Sagan

    Votes: 14 14.0%
  • Dylan Groenewegen

    Votes: 4 4.0%
  • Michael Matthews

    Votes: 2 2.0%
  • None of the above

    Votes: 4 4.0%
  • Vino-option

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
Feb 1, 2011
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Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

CyclingEnthusiast said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

If you can all just watch from 0.52 - 0.56 of this video in 0.25x speed you will clearly see that Cavendish was following the barriers and Sagan moved over and elbowed him in. There's no need to complicate it, just watch the video.

I agree.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Re: Re:

Lance Armstrong said:
Vroome.exe said:
cineteq said:
This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.
No, it's Cav's shoulder hitting Sagan's elbow. If you look at front wheels and their shadows, both bikes are now side by side and there's no space for Mark. Sagan's elbow in a natural position.

WATCH.
THE.
PICTURE.
sigh..

http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg
 
Jan 3, 2012
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cineteq said:
This is all I needed it to see

Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Firstly, watch the video.

Secondly, according to Cav the crash was as much Haussler's fault as his. He spends a whole page of his book explaining why.
(However, on that I will say that that crash DID look to me like Cav's fault, so I would blame him.)

Thirdly, some of Haussler's best results came in the years after that crash - 1st Australian National RR, 1st stage Tour of Beijing, 1st Points Classification Paris-Nice, 1st 2 stages of Tour of Qatar, 6th Flanders and, only last year, he got 6th in Roubaix and 7th in MSR. So no, it didn't destroy Haussler's career.

Fourthly, though in my opinion Cav was at fault for that crash, how does that justify what Sagan did? Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Re: Re:

Walkman said:
rhubroma said:
Supimilian said:
rhubroma said:
Sorry but Cav was behind, then tried to go inside, after Sagan had already been veering behind Demare in that direction.

Cav was already along side him when he pinched the inside (reason he flinched). When he went for the inside pass the gap was more than wide enough. Clear as day.
Unintentional by Sagan, but still not clean.
Cav did nothing wrong here and was unlucky.

First of all, it's terrible to see any rider go down at those speeds. But I have to disagree with you on this one. I don't see the gap you do. I mean that's tight. Cav took a huge risk, especially since Sagan and Demare had been moving in that direction just before he tried to pass.

Watch the picture:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg

I don't think the picture tells the whole story. If you look at the seconds prior to that shot, you will notice that Demare had been swinging hard in that direction, while Sagan had tried to be in his slipstream moving accordingly. It seems Sagan though they were already close enough to the barrier so that nobody would have dared to try and go through. That's why I think Cav took a huge risk in trying to pass.

Ok perhaps Sagan is guilty of, at that point, moving ever so closer against the transenes, at which point Cav was rubbing against him and shouting out of terror. The arm went up as a reflex to stay upright. I think Sagan was truly incredulous to Cav's front wheel actually bumping his thigh.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

CyclingEnthusiast said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

If you can all just watch from 0.52 - 0.56 of this video in 0.25x speed you will clearly see that Cavendish was following the barriers and Sagan moved over and elbowed him in. There's no need to complicate it, just watch the video.

Quoted for truth.
 
Oct 10, 2012
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Some now trying to claim that Cav shouldered Sagan on the elbow, I've heard it all now! Anyone reasonable trying to defend Sagan for that incident needs to ask themselves questions, they are simply blinded by fan loyalty.
 
May 4, 2014
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I think Cavendish was following Démare's wheel, which he was already doing before Démare went past Sagan. Then Sagan moves right, so Cavendish has to stop pedaling, but Sagan went further right and pushed Cavendish off his bike.
 
Jun 9, 2011
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Vasilis said:
I think Cavendish was following Démare's wheel, which he was already doing before Démare went past Sagan. Then Sagan moves right, so Cavendish has to stop pedaling, but Sagan went further right and pushed Cavendish off his bike.

Exacty this!
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Re: Re:

Walkman said:
Lance Armstrong said:
Vroome.exe said:
cineteq said:
This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.
No, it's Cav's shoulder hitting Sagan's elbow. If you look at front wheels and their shadows, both bikes are now side by side and there's no space for Mark. Sagan's elbow in a natural position.

WATCH.
THE.
PICTURE.
sigh..

http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg
That's one second prior to the incident and says nothing.

Anyway, Sagan was officially penalized.
 
May 10, 2013
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I don't know how some people can not see that Sagan was at fault. Cavendish had nowhere to go. He was alongside Sagan for long enough that he shouldn't have been pushed into the barriers.
 
May 17, 2016
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Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Appears Cav tried to ride through the barriers. School boy move Cav. Unfair that Sagan has been penalized :( .
 

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
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cineteq said:
This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?
Cav.hitting with his shoulder Sagan.Bloody Cav.he destroyed Sagan's tdf 2017 right there.
 
Aug 3, 2015
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Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

Walkman said:
CyclingEnthusiast said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4atl-3Njwg

If you can all just watch from 0.52 - 0.56 of this video in 0.25x speed you will clearly see that Cavendish was following the barriers and Sagan moved over and elbowed him in. There's no need to complicate it, just watch the video.

Quoted for truth.
Indeed. Pretty disgusting if you ask me. Fair penalty (If what I have heard is true).
 
Apr 15, 2016
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Re: Re:

Lance Armstrong said:
Vroome.exe said:
cineteq said:
This is all I needed it to see



Remember who was the guy who destroyed Haussler career?

Yep that's Sagan riding into Cav who's trying to stay upright after being pushed. And I don't remember Sagan destroying Haussler's career.
No, it's Cav's shoulder hitting Sagan's elbow. If you look at front wheels and their shadows, both bikes are now side by side and there's no space for Mark. Sagan's elbow in a natural position.


These two pictures represent what really happened the best.

In the first picture, you can clearly see Cav bumping into Sagan.
Sagans natural reaction to keep his balance is to stick out the elbow.
In the second picture you can see Cav already going down and HITTING Sagans elbow with his shoulder from behind!

I think that you have to be strongly biased against Sagan to not see this.

And keep in mind that this has happened in a second! In 60 kph.
 
May 26, 2009
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No fractures, but Cavendish was worried about the ligaments so we'll see


80 points taken away is a terrible decision
 
Jun 30, 2014
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deValtos said:
Now Demare gets away scott free and wins the green jersey. Nice plan ASO. :lol:
Do the French actually care about the boring Zabel jersey? I think that stage wins are a bigger deal.
They probably just wanted to penalize Sagan in a way that actually hurts him.