Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[Pricey_sky]

It's a tough decision and they've now set a precedent for clamping down.

Unfortunately you can review the incident a million times but when you see an elbow come out and a rider crash into the barriers with the world watching, they felt they had to make a call.

 

[Brullnux]

Yeah exclusion is unnecessary. The previous punishment had it fine imo

 

[Supimilian]

Too harsh.
If they throw out Sagan then Demare should at least lose his stage placing for how he cut in front of Bouhanni and others, but that will never happen.

EDIT:

After seeing him in the first crash, OK.
Acceptable decision.

 

[Bolder]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

****** to DSQ Sagan.

I'm already done with the Tour. Time to undo it's status and reverse this race to what it really is, a 2.2 race. Below the Belgian kermesses

Totally agree. Give Froome the yellow jersey and a French dude the green and be done with it.

Must second this.

Enough with the faux outrage. You'll keep watching.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

The organisers want to show that they are not pus**es, but they chose the wrong accident...

For the million time, organizers =/= commissaires

UCI officials, not ASO correct?

They are one and the same, ASO rules cycling and UCI obeys. ASO has the races and the money

Not quite one and the same, but ASO has significant influence in UCI and French Fed, which also has a vote. However, I would guess they would like to make it harder for Sagan (first penalty tabled) but not him out of it entirely. Maybe it was because of the first incident, or some political impasse/intrigue. I'd love it if a blow-by-blow account of it from inside leaked out.

 

[DFA123]

Terrible for the race, but the correct decision. And a brave one, so credit to the UCI.

They always go on about rider safety being the most important thing - rightly so. So it's good to see for once they have backed up their words, by setting an important precedent, even at some probable cost to their organisation and biggest race.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Gotta agree with the disqualification.

That really wasn't Sagan's fault

 

[arvc40]

Sagan sent home is totally over the top. This is Elite sprinting in the TDF ffs. It will be old news come end of tomorrow.

 

[spalco]

Re:

If anyone has the video, look precisely at 204 meters to go, time 4h:53:44.
You can see Cavendish leaning into Sagan right before Sagan's elbow goes out.

Yeah, because Sagan is already pushing him into the barrier at that point.

 

[Irondan]

Cillian Kelly‏ @irishpeloton 30s31 seconds ago
More
Djamolidin Abdoujaparov was never disqualified from the Tour de France

This!

 

[rhubroma]

Re:

I'm fine with the exclusion. As I said, whether Sagan meant to or not, flicking the elbow seemed to signal intent. It was a judgment call, and the judges clearly saw the same tapes we did, plus probably some overhead views. I actually start cringing every time the sprinters get inside the 1k mark because you know it's either going to end in a DQ or an injury. In this case we get both!

Edit: I maintain that Demare is innocent in this case. He may have been the reason that Sagan moved right but that has nothing to do with the incident.

No, watch Sagan race. He has an intuitive way of keeping himself balanced, when lesser bike handlers would hit the deck, by putting his leg and hip out at acute angles and rasing the elbow. He's done it reflexively many times before. No way he did so intending to take Cav out. Thus he derserved at most a fine.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

Sagan will have sense of guilt when he lines up tomorrow, maybe. Fines and penalties not nessicary.

Ahahahahaha

I'm guessing it works the same way for manslaughter or even murder then; they now feel bad so that's enough.

Not comparable.

Well, there you go mate, I guess he will feel bad enough now !

He will not,just angry and happy to have longer holidays with wife.Slowly preperation for worlds and spring classic.

 

[BigMac]

Re:

I'm fine with the exclusion. As I said, whether Sagan meant to or not, flicking the elbow seemed to signal intent. It was a judgment call, and the judges clearly saw the same tapes we did, plus probably some overhead views. I actually start cringing every time the sprinters get inside the 1k mark because you know it's either going to end in a DQ or an injury. In this case we get both!

Edit: I maintain that Demare is innocent in this case. He may have been the reason that Sagan moved right but that has nothing to do with the incident.

I don't even... Sagan stuck his elbow out to balance himself. If the commissaires mistook it for a deliberate attempt at hitting Cavendish then I seriously question their cognitive abilities.

You can't punish domeone because their actions ''seemed''. Where's the justice in that? It either was on purpose or it wasn't, and it clearly wasn't.

This, on the other hand...

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

****** to DSQ Sagan.

I'm already done with the Tour. Time to undo it's status and reverse this race to what it really is, a 2.2 race. Below the Belgian kermesses

Totally agree. Give Froome the yellow jersey and a French dude the green and be done with it.

Must second this.

Enough with the faux outrage. You'll keep watching.

I'll be honest, I haven't watched the Tour in its entirety since 2014. After that I realised I have better things to do on a July day. Same goes for this year.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

Sagan not necessary... what about Demare?? only if someone goes down??

Valid question. But are there any good footage of Demare? Just as he swings right the camera is blocked by some flags.

Very good video of Demare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0MgSNtiCI

 

[jonovision_man]

Re: Re:

If anyone has the video, look precisely at 204 meters to go, time 4h:53:44.
You can see Cavendish leaning into Sagan right before Sagan's elbow goes out.

Yeah, because Sagan is already pushing him into the barrier at that point.

Exactly. Sagan following a wheel, but you can't just do that blindly and squeeze out guys next to you... and the elbow, yeesh, it was completely aggressive, I don't know how people are reading it any other way.

jono

 

[Irondan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nt4x3nuzfQ

 

[fauniera]

Re:

So it's good to see for once they have backed up their words, by setting an important precedent, even at some probable cost to their organisation and biggest race.

Who profits from this decision? A Frenchman. Must be a coincidence.

 

[arvc40]

Lol, Cavendish will probably text him later and say how it's a rough deal !

 

[carton]

Re:

Too harsh.
If they throw out Sagan then Demare should at least lose his stage placing for how he cut in front of Bouhanni and others, but that will never happen.

Yep. Or Sagan when he cut across Dan Martin yesterday. But refereeing, particularly in the age of twitter, is all about overreacting once things happen, not preventing them.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Cillian Kelly‏ @irishpeloton 30s31 seconds ago
More
Djamolidin Abdoujaparov was never disqualified from the Tour de France

This!

He should have been though. And undoubtedly would have been in this era, with a supposedly greater focus on rider safety.

 

[alspacka]

Re:

I'm fine with the exclusion. As I said, whether Sagan meant to or not, flicking the elbow seemed to signal intent. It was a judgment call, and the judges clearly saw the same tapes we did, plus probably some overhead views. I actually start cringing every time the sprinters get inside the 1k mark because you know it's either going to end in a DQ or an injury. In this case we get both!

Edit: I maintain that Demare is innocent in this case. He may have been the reason that Sagan moved right but that has nothing to do with the incident.

Intent to stay on his bike, yes.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Good this will set an example.

To people not to make this normal especially with all those downhill sprints and to ASO for not being scared this time.
People need to get out of Sagan's (...). Even IF that Cav had no space at all. He clearly even widened himself without the need to with his elbow = at least a time penalty. Maybe this is too harsh. But we must not forget that now that the riders association can make changes they will try to use this to shorten the stages, because it stays quite ridiculous to have a 125+ mile stages if all sprinters can ride RVV and P-R and don't get smoked out at all.

Yea example, right so why is Demare still a winner of this stage? :lol:

There's no comparison. Yes, it looks like DEmare wasn't completely clear ahead of Bouhanni, but what he did happens in every sprint. And he was in front, and it was not a brutal turn...et caetera. So why not eliminate sprint stages altogether? I won't complain...but until it's done, we can go with a microscope and find something in every sprint. He recognized that Kristoff was going to close the door on the right side, went for the left side. Like it or not, Demare was clearly the best today, and a deserving winner.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

****** to DSQ Sagan.

I'm already done with the Tour. Time to undo it's status and reverse this race to what it really is, a 2.2 race. Below the Belgian kermesses

There is a post like this every year. Every year.

Because every year it's the race with the biggest hype and the most boring racing, most accidents, and *** decisions.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Sagan will have sense of guilt when he lines up tomorrow, maybe. Fines and penalties not nessicary.

Ahahahahaha

I'm guessing it works the same way for manslaughter or even murder then; they now feel bad so that's enough.

Not comparable.

Well, there you go mate, I guess he will feel bad enough now !

I didn't want him expelled, the punishment he got initially was correct in my eyes. But your line of reasoning was completely ridiculous.