Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

[DanielSong39]

I understand that a lot of fans are mad about Sagan's DQ. They have every right to be mad but the anger should be placed squarely on Sagan himself.

 

[rehy90]

Cycling officials are just ridiculous. It is like they are always trying to show the world that they are fair. Unfortunately it always ends up in their own embarrassment and damaging cycling...

 

[Supimilian]

Re:

Maybe there is something more to the first crash as well involving Sagan.

Tried to squeeze between two FDJ riders. Left one went down.
Was posted but then removed for some reason.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

Robbie McEwen‏Verified account @mcewenrobbie 6m6 minutes ago
More
I agree with the expulsion of @petosagan from @LeTour. The DQ yes, but kicked off the Tour!?! NO.

That makes no sense.

Clearly he is saying that the expulsion is the right thing to do, but getting kicked off is completely wrong.

 

[Walkman]

Re:

Maybe there is something more to the first crash as well involving Sagan.

There is a video of it, Sagan could be the reason. Not clear cut but it looks like he is going for a small gap between two riders and both of them goes down and causing the crash. Look a couple of pages back.

 

[Ruby United]

Re: Re:

I'm fine with the exclusion. As I said, whether Sagan meant to or not, flicking the elbow seemed to signal intent. It was a judgment call, and the judges clearly saw the same tapes we did, plus probably some overhead views. I actually start cringing every time the sprinters get inside the 1k mark because you know it's either going to end in a DQ or an injury. In this case we get both!

Edit: I maintain that Demare is innocent in this case. He may have been the reason that Sagan moved right but that has nothing to do with the incident.

I don't even... Sagan stuck his elbow out to balance himself. If the commissaires mistook it for a deliberate attempt at hitting Cavendish then I seriously question their cognitive abilities.

You can't punish domeone because their actions ''seemed''. Where's the justice in that? It either was on purpose or it wasn't, and it clearly wasn't.

This, on the other hand...

Cav wrote in his book, 'At Speed':
"Tom Veelers had let his head droop and stopped looking where he was going as he finished his lead out, veered right into my line and into my body with 300 metres to go. In the impact I stayed upright but I lost momentum, whilst Veelers had crashed spectacularly in the middle of the road. Immediately the fingers were pointed at me, mainly because, having concentrated on the frames immediately before and during the collision, the TV analysts neglected to mention that the road veered left after Veelers' fall at exactly the same angle I had taken....

Every rider I had seen that day, and every rider that I would discuss it with over the next two or three days , would agree that Veelers' crash the previous day had not been my fault. The commissaires had also exonerated me..."

After the stage, he infamously stole a reporters dictaphone. Cavendish argues that that set the press against him and because of that - along with the fact that the TV cameras don't show the road turning left - the public had a negative reaction to him.

In any event, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Robbie McEwen‏Verified account @mcewenrobbie 6m6 minutes ago
More
I agree with the expulsion of @petosagan from @LeTour. The DQ yes, but kicked off the Tour!?! NO.

That makes no sense.

Haha! No, it doesn't.

I don't think Robbie knows that being DQ'd is the same as being kicked off the Tour...

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I agree that Sagan earned a relegation, loss of points and a time loss. But to change their minds and toss him from the Tour is beyond hysterical.

Yep, it's certainly a suprising decision whichever way you look at it. They must surely be convinced for whatever reason that it was a deliberate action, but you would have expected them to make a much less commital call. I wonder if he was on a 'last warning' or something after a couple of previous incidents.

 

[arvc40]

Re: Re:

Sagan will have sense of guilt when he lines up tomorrow, maybe. Fines and penalties not nessicary.

Ahahahahaha

I'm guessing it works the same way for manslaughter or even murder then; they now feel bad so that's enough.

Not comparable.

Well, there you go mate, I guess he will feel bad enough now !

I didn't want him expelled, the punishment he got initially was correct in my eyes. But your line of reasoning was completely ridiculous.

Why was it ridiculous, I imagine he would have been extremely apologetic and embarrassed the next morning and I also agreed to the Points being docked in reply to previous poster. Now he's gone which is absolute Bollox and no way would I have voted for that.

 

[Cervelo77]

The ASO should just ban sprinting if they don't want to see crashes. I maintain Sagan was trying to balance himself. In the overhead shot it sure looks a lot like Cav runs into Sagan and then Sagan puts out his elbow to avoid going down. Result not equal to intent. I could see relegating Sagan for not maintaining his lane during the sprint, but throwing him out is an overreaction. (And while we're at it, Demare is all over the road during his sprint, cutting across people like it's a hobby.)

 

[Jagartrott]

Re: Re:

Cavendish is from this era, and everyone's been putting up with his crap on the road. Nothing happens to him.

2013 was just 4 years ago. This has double standards written all over it.

This was a kneejerk decision from the commissaires. Bloody virtue signaling. As rhub said, shot themselves on the foot.

Got to agree with this. Worse has happened, but in this quite debatable case, the jury decides to make a statement.

 

[MartinGT]

Re: Re:

Robbie McEwen‏Verified account @mcewenrobbie 6m6 minutes ago
More
I agree with the expulsion of @petosagan from @LeTour. The DQ yes, but kicked off the Tour!?! NO.

That makes no sense.

Clearly he is saying that the expulsion is the right thing to do, but getting kicked off is completely wrong.

Aye, to me Expulsion is to be kicked off the Tour.

 

[spalco]

Has there ever been a race thread with a higher ratio of post-race to during-race commentary than this one?

 

[klintE]

Re: Re:

Gotta agree with the disqualification.

That really wasn't Sagan's fault

Highly debatable.

Not debatable. It was his fault. But 100% not intentional (crash). And the elbow is a proof of that - he reacted like they do (when touched)

 

[GuyIncognito]

Re: Re:

A disqualification is against the UCI's own rules...

http://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/Rulesandregulation/16/26/68/12-DIS-20170701-E_English.pdf

10.1.Deviating from selected lane, endangering
other riders
1st offence: relegation to the last place in his group, point
classification penalty equal to the points awarded to the first
place of the stage, 200 + 30’’ in general class.
2nd offence: relegation to last place in the stage, point
classification penalty equal to the points awarded to the first
place of the stage, 200 + 1’ in general class.
3rd offence: elimination + 200

This post deserves attention.

So, for yesterday's elbow he should've lost the stage win plus points and 30 secs on GC. For today's elbow he should lose 2nd in the stage, more pts and another minute on GC.

It shouldn't be a DQ until the 3rd time.

 

[Irondan]

Re: Re:

Cavendish is from this era, and everyone's been putting up with his crap on the road. Nothing happens to him.

2013 was just 4 years ago. This has double standards written all over it.

This was a kneejerk decision from the commissaires. Bloody virtue signaling. As rhub said, shot themselves on the foot.

Got to agree with this. Worse has happened, but in this quite debatable case, the jury decides to make a statement.

The jury made two statements.

They made a statement and then decided to make another entirely different one. Not confusing at all...

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

So it's good to see for once they have backed up their words, by setting an important precedent, even at some probable cost to their organisation and biggest race.

Who profits from this decision? A Frenchman. Must be a coincidence.

I knew it! The French did it!

Come on ...

A sanction was deserved: but kicking Sagan out of the TdF is total over-reaction IMO.

 

[BigMac]

Laura Meseguer
@Laura_Meseguer
Sergeant, Lotto: "Greipel is pissed by the attitude of Sagan...He has just told me: 'Sagan is not my friend anymore'

What the hell is this? ''Not my friend anymore''.

I can't bear the cringe.

 

[MartinGT]

What happend to Kittel BTW? Was he taken down in the first crash?

 

[Irondan]

Re:

Has there ever been a race thread with a higher ratio of post-race to during-race commentary than this one?

Not that I can remember, but the Tour has a lot of history here in the Forum so there could be other times too.

 

[Screecher]

Re:

What happend to Kittel BTW? Was he taken down in the first crash?

.@marcelkittel didn't crash, but couldn't contest the sprint as he was slowed down by the first crash. #TDF2017

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

DQing him is a bit much, imho, especially after they relegated him. If they meant to DQ him, they should have done it right away and made the decision after deliberating. This just reflects poorly on the ASO.

 

[deValtos]

Re:

Laura Meseguer
@Laura_Meseguer
Sergeant, Lotto: "Greipel is pissed by the attitude of Sagan...He has just told me: 'Sagan is not my friend anymore'

What the hell is this? ''Not my friend anymore''.

I can't bear the cringe.

To be fair to Greipel he said that 10s after the finish line. I think everyone needs a few hours to cool down and then ok let's see what their opinions are.

 

[klintE]

Sprint stage, sprint page

 

[spalco]

Re: Re:

Maybe there is something more to the first crash as well involving Sagan.

There is a video of it, Sagan could be the reason. Not clear cut but it looks like he is going for a small gap between two riders and both of them goes down and causing the crash. Look a couple of pages back.

The way I saw the first crash it wasn't Sagan's fault. The FdJ rider, whoever it was bumped into Sagan from the left and just bounced off him causing the crash. Had Sagan moved a little to the right, maybe the crash would've been avoided, but can't blame him for holding his line there.