Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 207 km

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Who is going to win the stage?

  • Marcel Kittel

    Votes: 50 50.0%

  • André Greipel

    Votes: 5 5.0%

  • Mark Cavendish

    Votes: 6 6.0%

  • Sonny Colbrelli

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Arnaud Demare

    Votes: 15 15.0%

  • Peter Sagan

    Votes: 14 14.0%

  • Dylan Groenewegen

    Votes: 4 4.0%

  • Michael Matthews

    Votes: 2 2.0%

  • None of the above

    Votes: 4 4.0%

  • Vino-option

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    100
  • Poll closed .
L

loge1884

Apr 1, 2013
426
0
0
Re:

DFA123 said:
So the Tour de France, with one of the crappest routes you will ever see, has now lost the two most talented riders on the startlist, within four stages.

What a race!
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well, there is for sure lot of entertainment gone .... maybe Alberto will do something (to my knowledge he didn't crash yet), maybe Froome will do a Usain Bolt uphill again, maybe sky will divide into fractions fighting eachother for the win, let's see .... or we will just be left with some anemic sprinting and Quintana's non-attack-policy for the next two and half weeks ...
 
M

Metal earth

Jun 9, 2011
47
32
8,630
Re: Tour de France 2017 stage 4: Mondorf-les-Bains-Vittel 20

BigMac said:
Metal earth said:
BigMac said:
Dekker_Tifosi said:
I don't believe Sagan did this on purpose. It looked worse than it was.
He was trying to balance himself after Cavendish already hit him. Cavendish was going through a gap that wasn't there. Because Sagan balanced himself with his elbows he hit Cavendish and knocked him down.

He deserved the punishment, but it was not intentional malice.
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This, omg. Some people...

He might have deserved the punishment for closing the door, but Cavendish was (yet again) reckless.

I wonder if Sagan had crashed because of Cavendish hitting him, who would be at fault? Sagan is a nice bike handler.
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Nice way to show your bias. Please explain how Cavendish is reckless. He was right next to Sagan and they were exactly in the middle of the road, then Sagan deviated far more to the right than he needed to forcing Cav into the barriers. What was Cav supposed to do? Seriously, how is this debatable?
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I'm not biased. I couldn't care less. I like Cavendish as a sprinter, the best there ever was. But here he was reckless in the sense that he kept pushing for a gap that wasn't there. In the end he forced the contact because he was coming from behind. Once he saw things were getting too tight he shouldered Sagan, when he should have decelerated. Sagan would have been punished for closing the door and Cavendish wouldn't have nearly destroyed himself once again. It's telling how Cavendish is involved in a crash every year.

What I'm really pissed about is people saying Sagan elbowed Cavendish, when he only stuck out his elbow to regain the balance he lost due to being hit by Cavendish.

Why wasn't Cavendish punished for the deliberate shouldering of Tom Veelers 4 years ago? That one was blatant but there wasn't nearly as much outrage. Why does he always get away with being a danger on the road? If Cavendish hadn't DNF'd when he caused Gerrans to crash in 2014, I'd bet the farm he would not have been punished.
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Well in this case, the things getting too tight you are referring to is directly caused by the massive deviation from Sagan towards the barrier. Like I said they were riding right next to each other in the middle of the road and Sagan pushed him towards the barrier. It was obvious Cav was going faster and he was riding in a straight line but Sagan continued right to close the gap leaving no room for Cav. Cav actually was unwantingly slowing his speed, hence the reason at the moment of the elbow he was behind Sagan. You are asking Cav to descelarate while not being critical of Sagan, that is not in line with the facts. Cav was not at fault, this was not a reckless move by him.

The elbow is debatable, it's hard to say what the intention behind it was. It is true that it probably didn't cause the crash since Cav was already on his way down, but it's definately not a good look.

On your last point with Veelers and Gerrans I for 100% agree with you.
 
B

bigcog

Jul 9, 2012
2,613
281
11,880
Re:

Cervelo77 said:
The ASO should just ban sprinting if they don't want to see crashes. I maintain Sagan was trying to balance himself. In the overhead shot it sure looks a lot like Cav runs into Sagan and then Sagan puts out his elbow to avoid going down. Result not equal to intent. I could see relegating Sagan for not maintaining his lane during the sprint, but throwing him out is an overreaction. (And while we're at it, Demare is all over the road during his sprint, cutting across people like it's a hobby.)
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Sagan's line is diagonal, straight into Cav's leaving him now where to go, bingo. Plus he apparently caused the first crash and did something yesterday to p*ss off Griepel in an intermediate sprint. Maybe more than one team lodged a protest ...
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Re:

MatParker117 said:
"We applied article 12.104, irregular sprints, in which case commissaires are allowed to enforce a judgement to disqualify a rider and amend a fine."
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Pure comedy.

Most sprints are irregular FFS!!!!!

The UCI should get academy awards for comedy!!!!
 
infeXio

infeXio

Nov 26, 2011
2,007
4
11,485
Re: Re:

bigcog said:
Cervelo77 said:
The ASO should just ban sprinting if they don't want to see crashes. I maintain Sagan was trying to balance himself. In the overhead shot it sure looks a lot like Cav runs into Sagan and then Sagan puts out his elbow to avoid going down. Result not equal to intent. I could see relegating Sagan for not maintaining his lane during the sprint, but throwing him out is an overreaction. (And while we're at it, Demare is all over the road during his sprint, cutting across people like it's a hobby.)
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Sagan's line is diagonal, straight into Cav's leaving him now where to go, bingo. Plus he apparently caused the first crash and did something yesterday to p*ss off Griepel in an intermediate sprint. Maybe more than one team lodged a protest ...
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He didn't cause the first crash.
 
KGB

KGB

Apr 16, 2015
480
0
0
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
PeterB said:
MatParker117 said:
"We applied article 12.104, irregular sprints, in which case commissaires are allowed to enforce a judgement to disqualify a rider and amend a fine."
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Which says this:

Moreover, the Commissaires Panel may, in particularly serious cases, eliminate and fine a rider with 200 on the first offence

So they perceived this as a "particularly serious case". It is arguably not further defined, what constitutes particular seriousness of the case.
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I think elbowing a fellow rider into the barriers at 60km/h has to be deemed 'particularly serious', IF they have decided it is either deliberate or willfully negligent.
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Cav. try to pass Sagan but hit sagan which he react ellbow out and gap totaly closed to pass Sagan which resulted Cav.parked his bike into barriers.Very dangerous ride by Cav..He actually put into danger Sagan and another riders.
 
Benotti69

Benotti69

May 26, 2010
28,143
5
0
Re: Re:

bigcog said:
Cervelo77 said:
The ASO should just ban sprinting if they don't want to see crashes. I maintain Sagan was trying to balance himself. In the overhead shot it sure looks a lot like Cav runs into Sagan and then Sagan puts out his elbow to avoid going down. Result not equal to intent. I could see relegating Sagan for not maintaining his lane during the sprint, but throwing him out is an overreaction. (And while we're at it, Demare is all over the road during his sprint, cutting across people like it's a hobby.)
Click to expand...

Sagan's line is diagonal, straight into Cav's leaving him now where to go, bingo. Plus he apparently caused the first crash and did something yesterday to p*ss off Griepel in an intermediate sprint. Maybe more than one team lodged a protest ...
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Cav been in this game long enough to know he was going nowhere in against the barriers. Should've backed off.
 
Valv.Piti

Valv.Piti

Aug 3, 2015
22,061
9,539
28,180
Re: Re:

Alexandre B. said:
Irondan said:
Jens Voigt‏Verified account @thejensie 1m1 minute ago
More
So when we start punish people- maybe consider him first. His move almost chrashed Bouhanni, he is trying to save himself and moves Sagan
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Jensie talking about Demare's sprint...
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Now maybe he'll remember who he is. :)
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Jens tried 3 times and still got it wrong, despite Démare was in NC-jersey. Great prep there, Jensie. :lol:
 
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