Tour de France 2020 | Stage 13 (Châtel-Guyon - Puy Mary, 191.5 km)

[Libertine Seguros]

The weird thing is, Ineos looked like they actually thought Bernal had the legs today. You don't burn all your domestiques, isolating your own leader, if he doesn't want to attack.

Somebody should tell Jumbo that.

 

[Luthor]

Somebody should tell Jumbo that.

Tbf the stages look better with fewer domestiques working at the end

 

[Oldermanish]

Somebody should tell Jumbo that.

Watching the last Km of that climb it seemed clear that several riders knew exactly what they had and how to pace it:
1)Martinez 2)Roglic 3)Uran
They all got on with the work and spent little time looking around which is the only way to get up a heinous power climb like that. Very exciting for a slow-motion finish.

 

[Valv.Piti]

People have talked about Sky/Ineos' tactical brilliance at times, but realistically they are generally pretty limited. Their technique works on a simple bludgeoning tactic built around having the strongest rider in the race. When they've had to be more creative, they've struggled, though they have improved in this respect and of course have hit one real home run (2018 Jafferau). A lot of the best tactical work that the squad has done in stage racing has in fact been Froome working off his own back, like the descent attack on the Peyresourde in 2016 and the crosswind move. The question now is to figure out whether this was the team brass becoming more savvy or if it was just Froome himself becoming more tactically astute.

Realistically though, that didnt have any impact in the race as he won quite convincingly. Only thing it did was to have people talk lots about it in what was otherwise the dullest Tour I can remember (that says a lot with Tours like 2009 and 2017 in mind).

Not only have they had the strongest rider, but also by far the strongest team. At that point it isnt really that hard to get perceived as a tactical mastermind as their DS when all they in reality was doing was riding faster than their opponents. It aint rocket science lol

 

[Leinster]

People have talked about Sky/Ineos' tactical brilliance at times, but realistically they are generally pretty limited. Their technique works on a simple bludgeoning tactic built around having the strongest rider in the race. When they've had to be more creative, they've struggled, though they have improved in this respect and of course have hit one real home run (2018 Jafferau). A lot of the best tactical work that the squad has done in stage racing has in fact been Froome working off his own back, like the descent attack on the Peyresourde in 2016 and the crosswind move. The question now is to figure out whether this was the team brass becoming more savvy or if it was just Froome himself becoming more tactically astute.

Even Jafferau was just an exaggerated, long range version of the same plan as at Ax 3 domaines or Pierre St Martin.

 

[Red Rick]

People have talked about Sky/Ineos' tactical brilliance at times, but realistically they are generally pretty limited. Their technique works on a simple bludgeoning tactic built around having the strongest rider in the race. When they've had to be more creative, they've struggled, though they have improved in this respect and of course have hit one real home run (2018 Jafferau). A lot of the best tactical work that the squad has done in stage racing has in fact been Froome working off his own back, like the descent attack on the Peyresourde in 2016 and the crosswind move. The question now is to figure out whether this was the team brass becoming more savvy or if it was just Froome himself becoming more tactically astute.

2018 Jafferau was the same exact bludgeoning as all the others. It worked cause Finestre.

When a minute back they've just always done the drill final climb and attack thing, as evidenced by Farrapona and Ancares 2014, and Aitana 2016.

 

[Leinster]

Somebody should tell Jumbo that.

Jumbo didn't burn off Pogacar.

 

[Carols]

Interesting quotes from Bernal

I looked at my numbers from today's stage and they were almost my best ever. The rest simply went faster.

That's the second time I've heard a rider say they were equal to or out-performing previous Tours. Those Slovenians are next-leveling it somehow.

Bardet also said something similar a few days ago. The second quote is a clear dig at the Slovenians. Maybe he meant: What are they on?

So his best numbers couldn't beat Landa, Porte or MAL either? I think he's fibbing...he cracked. Own it dude!

 

[BlueRoads]

I suppose the tactics were not easy for Ineos here, because they probably did not know where exactly they stand. They know Bernal's numbers, but they did not know whether Roglic would profit more or less from a hard pace early on, whether it would suit him best to be delivered at the top by his team-mates to then sprint 100m, or whether he would put even more time into Bernal if there was a high pace early on.
The bluffing and **ing around should be done now, Roglic can be sure to be the strongest, Bernal and his team need to make the race hard and attack earlier, it's the only chance they got, if a weak one.

In the end tactics played a very small role today, I think, in regards to the stage win as to the GC. The strongest ones came out on top, very clearly to see.

 

[topt]

Roglic to cyclingnews forum today

 

[ice&fire]

So his best numbers couldn't beat Landa, Porte or MAL either? I think he's fibbing...he cracked. Own it dude!

That numbers thing has been taken from Contador's Handbook of Bluffing

 

[Oldermanish]

Jumbo didn't burn off Pogacar.

Pogacar tactically worked off JV; which is great pacing for him. He doesn't have any help so that makes good sense.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Pogacar tactically worked off JV; which is great pacing for him. He doesn't have any help so that makes good sense.

Yup, it almost seems like JV is Pogacar's team. They propelled him perfectly for Peyresourde attack, even sacrificing Dumoulin in the process

 

[Luthor]

So his best numbers couldn't beat Landa, Porte or MAL either? I think he's fibbing...he cracked. Own it dude!

Now I'm curious about the data on that climb and if that's really true. I really doubt it. He also threw a fit to the Slovenians when they gained like 13s on Porte. Martinez also climbed better than Bernal. He should've reckoned he was weak today instead of making false claims. Bernal is becoming less likeable tbh, I don't like liars. At this point I hope he is out of the podium at the end.

 

[BlueRoads]

Well, maybe someone here has some data and can help to decide how close this is to truth or lying. Maybe he's not even referring to general climbing levels but to climbs and circumstances like today.
Of course we can say he lost time on Porte, Landa and Lopez, too, but then he was still a bit better than Quintana.

 

[topt]

Nah, I know, but its high altitude and and the same time by far the hardest MTF of the race in the 3rd week. If he cant drop Roglic there, obviously he stand no chance at all, but I think he can

Roglic is not Kruijswijk

 

[Red Rick]

Realistically though, that didnt have any impact in the race as he won quite convincingly. Only thing it did was to have people talk lots about it in what was otherwise the dullest Tour I can remember (that says a lot with Tours like 2009 and 2017 in mind).

Not only have they had the strongest rider, but also by far the strongest team. At that point it isnt really that hard to get perceived as a tactical mastermind as their DS when all they in reality was doing was riding faster than their opponents. It aint rocket science lol

Yeah in terms of winning races it's been very simple but I do think there's some subtleties they've done in managing manpower and controlling races overall and measuring the effort over 3 weeks where they've done really well really consistently.

 

[Red Rick]

Nah, I know, but its high altitude and and the same time by far the hardest MTF of the race in the 3rd week. If he cant drop Roglic there, obviously he stand no chance at all, but I think he can

We'll see come Sunday, but now it doesn't look like Bernal is dropping Roglic anywhere.

 

[TomLPC]

Interesting quotes from Bernal

I looked at my numbers from today's stage and they were almost my best ever. The rest simply went faster.

That's the second time I've heard a rider say they were equal to or out-performing previous Tours. Those Slovenians are next-leveling it somehow.

Bardet also said something similar a few days ago. The second quote is a clear dig at the Slovenians. Maybe he meant: What are they on?

 

[topt]

I'm not saying Roglic will win, the gap is too thin but Bernal actually thought he could win time today. He said earlier "my tour starts with this stage", Ineos worked for him quite strong and Carapaz attacked. But in the end he couldn't do much. MAL is smaller than Bernal but had the power to keep up with Landa/Porte.

Bernal needs his form from last year but at this moment he doesn't have it to put minutes ahead of Roglic on Loze. Roglic looks the freshest rn, he didn't struggle yet and kept his effort at a minimum. He can also pace like a madman for good periods of time like he did today. I can see Pog struggling on Loze though, he also spent a lot of effort.

I'm still going with my bold podium from stage 4 :
Rog
Bern
Pog

he is in his form from last year, just last year competition wasnt as good

 

[topt]

Now I'm curious about the data on that climb and if that's really true. I really doubt it. He also threw a fit to the Slovenians when they gained like 13s on Porte. Martinez also climbed better than Bernal. He should've reckoned he was weak today instead of making false claims. Bernal is becoming less likeable tbh, I don't like liars. At this point I hope he is out of the podium at the end.

Pogacar will have the numbers on Strava, really interested also; he did 450 on his break for 20min

 

[Red Rick]

VAMs look similar to Mende 2018 IMO if you take into account the gradient is more ideal and it's shorter.

 

[Koronin]

Impressive by Roglic and Pogacar again. I still think Landa has a chance at the podium, even with his yet again losing time in week 1. If he could ever not lose time like that he might have a real chance at a Grand Tour. Enric Mas is back in the top 10.

 

[TomLPC]

Numbers - Final 2k - No insinuation intended

https://twitter.com/x/status/1304457145015062528

 

[BlueRoads]

Enric Mas is back in the top 10.

Yes. Basically by not falling off his bike like Bardet and Mollema I did not know what exactly Valverde should stay at his side for, now I know.