Tour de France 2020 | Stage 16 (La Tour-du-Pin - Villard-de-Lans, 164 km)

[Valv.Piti]

You sure do have a vivid imagination, when it comes to fantasizing about what other people may think or do, irrespective of them having given no indication of that

What do you mean? If commentators are saying its the hardest climb the Tour has EVER done, obviously people wont expect minimal gaps.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Just know, that your posts are pissing off more people than just Valv.Piti

How so?

I relay what some commentator says, as an explanation for why Astana is not attacking today - and is instantly ridiculed for it.

How does that fall back on me?

You people make no sense

 

[Devil's Elbow]

If that's actually a usable climb at the foot of Ventoux it's a crime they haven't used it

It's like 6k from Sault (the easy side of Ventoux), it would be great after Chalet-Reynard in a Paris-Nice and possibly better in the Tour after Ventoux-north. And yes, it's perfectly rideable.

 

[Red Rick]

Very much agree with this. Its obviously one of the hardest climbs ridden, but the problem is stating that "well, former rider, he knows a lot more than any of us" us is just flat out laughable in my opinion. That said, Chris Anker is obviously a much better analyst than Flecha, but him saying that doesnt mean anything to me. I can see myself that Loze is an extremely hard climb, but the insane gaps some might expect most likely wont be there as the climb is constructed in a very back-loaded way. Meribel in itself is a relatively easy climb for the best climbers in the peloton, and then you have those 5-6 very hard kms in altitude which obviously will make a difference.

And yes, I do think Portet is a harder climb and I do think that Agnello is a harder climb. I could even argue that Loze isnt even the hardest climb of the day. Its obviously close, Loze is up there, but my point just is that its so wrong just to take everything that these former riders say for granted without looking at the stuff yourself.

Ultimately it's all down to the definition of "hard". I don't really think 20ish km 7% ish climbs where the last 5km average 10% aren't that rare or unique, they're just almost always passes. In fact, Col de la Loze is a pass and would much better be used as such. In the Tour, at the very least I think the Agnello east side is significantly harder, primarily because the first part of the Loze isn' hard enough to drill it completely and you're automatically left waiting until the final 5km, while the Agnello has like 9km of 10% between 1800m and 2700m of altitude.

I think Lago Serru is the closest comparison in the Giro, (if they go all the way to the top it's clearly harder/more decisive), and for the Vuelta I think it's Bola del Mundo and Cuitu Negru. Bola I don't remember if they actually did the hard side of Navacerrada or not, and Cuitu Negru, while lower, is also way, way steeper in the end.

Also, the good old 'you think you know better than that former pro?'. The answer for me is typically yes.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

What do you mean? If commentators are saying its the hardest climb the Tour has EVER done, obviously people wont expect minimal gaps.

You are - as usual - assuming stuff that nobody has expressed, like for instance that I believe anything commentators say blindly, as if I was some sort of moron.

It's a comment with no other purpose than insulting me.

That you then decide to instantly start whining, when I dare to respond in kind, really just makes you come across pathetic.

 

[Red Rick]

If that's actually a usable climb at the foot of Ventoux it's a crime they haven't used it

It's near the bottom of the easiest side of the Ventoux. Either ascend to Chalet Reynard through Bedoin or do the entire climb from Malaucene

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ultimately it's all down to the definition of "hard". I don't really think 20ish km 7% ish climbs where the last 5km average 10% aren't that rare or unique, they're just almost always passes. In fact, Col de la Loze is a pass and would much better be used as such. In the Tour, at the very least I think the Agnello east side is significantly harder, primarily because the first part of the Loze isn' hard enough to drill it completely and you're automatically left waiting until the final 5km, while the Agnello has like 9km of 10% between 1800m and 2700m of altitude.

I think Lago Serru is the closest comparison in the Giro, (if they go all the way to the top it's clearly harder/more decisive), and for the Vuelta I think it's Bola del Mundo and Cuitu Negru. Bola I don't remember if they actually did the hard side of Navacerrada or not, and Cuitu Negru, while lower, is also way, way steeper in the end.

Also, the good old 'you think you know better than that former pro?'. The answer for me is typically yes.

Imagine if the Tour would use the Agnel from the Italian side and finish in Saint-Veran afterwards...
Honestly, I don't know how hard Col de la Loze is, moderate altitude doesn't really bother me andI've done climbs that have a higher average gradient for longer, I'd have to climb it.

 

[Gigs_98]

Don't really get why Rolland attacked so early. Easily could have waited another kilometre and he really needs energy left for the final 1st category one.

 

[Red Rick]

Imagine if the Tour would use the Agnel from the Italian side and finish in Saint-Veran afterwards...
Honestly, I don't know how hard Col de la Loze is, moderate altitude doesn't really bother me andI've done climbs that have a higher average gradient for longer, I'd have to climb it.

Saint Veran?

There's the bottom of some climb to some observatory or some *** at like 2950m.

Also I forgot I had Giau east and Tre cimi on my shortlist of comparable climbs.

 

[Gigs_98]

Imagine if the Tour would use the Agnel from the Italian side and finish in Saint-Veran afterwards...
Honestly, I don't know how hard Col de la Loze is, moderate altitude doesn't really bother me andI've done climbs that have a higher average gradient for longer, I'd have to climb it.

Yeah and you are an Italian coming from the dolomites. That's an unfair comparison

 

[Salvarani]

Don't really get why Rolland attacked so early. Easily could have waited another kilometre and he really needs energy left for the final 1st category one.

I think him going early and taking his own tempo for 1-2 km is a good tactic though. I think a more explosive attack/sprint closer to it takes more energy and risks taking someone along.

 

[Valv.Piti]

You are - as usual - assuming stuff that nobody has expressed, like for instance that I believe anything commentators say blindly, as if I was some sort of moron.

It's a comment with no other purpose than insulting me.

That you then decide to instantly start whining, when I dare to respond in kind, really just makes you come across pathetic.

You are the one making the former rider >>>> random forum member point. As I have said now on numerous occasions, I dont give a rats ass about such logic and I really dont wanna spend more time on discussing this topic with you.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Saint Veran?

There's the bottom of some climb to some observatory or some *** at like 2950m.

Descent the French side of the Agnel until Molines-en-Queyras, then the last 6km of this one.

 

[Red Rick]

Descent the French side of the Agnel until Molines-en-Queyras, then the last 6km of this one.

Now that fits perfectly

 

[Broccolidwarf]

You are the one making the former rider >>>> random forum member point. As I have said now on numerous occasions, I dont give a rats ass about such logic and I really dont wanna spend more time on discussing this topic with you.

Tell you what, there is a simple solution here.

I'll just push the ignore button on you.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors

 

[Pricey_sky]

Tell you what, there is a simple solution here.

I'll just push the ignore button on you.

I wish you luck in your future endeavors

Wise decision, let’s drop this please, both of you.

 

[roundabout]

Navacerrada before Bola is something like 18km at 5% average. Loze before the hard part is 17km at 7%.

Cuitu Negru is nothing special before the final 3km except for 1 very steep km at the end of Pajares

And regarding today it seems easier-hard-hard is not the best order for 3 days in the mountains

 

[bob.a.feet]

Imagine if the Tour would use the Agnel from the Italian side and finish in Saint-Veran afterwards...
Honestly, I don't know how hard Col de la Loze is, moderate altitude doesn't really bother me andI've done climbs that have a higher average gradient for longer, I'd have to climb it.

I always get so jealous hearing the climbs people in other countries ride. In Ireland, our hardest climb is probably Mount Leinster... 13km @ 6%!

 

[Mayomaniac]

Now that fits perfectly

Ok, that looks hard.
Yes, Tre Cime from Auronzo is really hard, the first part before Misurina is also really exposed to the sun and it gets pretty hot.
I think the climb to Oberbozen/Soprabolzano would be the hardest climb in an actual race, compared to all the other climbs that I've done. That first km at over 19% with ramps up to 30% would blow the race into pieces.

 

[Valv.Piti]

I always get so jealous hearing the climbs people in other countries ride. In Ireland, our hardest climb is probably Mount Leinster... 13km @ 6%!

I mean, that sounds like a great climb to ride your bike. Thats a lot better than the joke that is Denmark and Holland, for example..

At least I envy such terrain!

 

[Pricey_sky]

Bora trying to push on in front.

 

[Brumdog66]

Navacerrada before Bola is something like 18km at 5% average. Loze before the hard part is 17km at 7%.

Cuitu Negru is nothing special before the final 3km except for 1 very steep km at the end of Pajares

And regarding today it seems easier-hard-hard is not the best order for 3 days in the mountains

Think today was designed for the break and the next 2 stages should work as a pair

 

[Hugo Koblet]

I always get so jealous hearing the climbs people in other countries ride. In Ireland, our hardest climb is probably Mount Leinster... 13km @ 6%!

Well, the hardest climb in Denmark is probably something like 1.5 km @ 7.5%

 

[bob.a.feet]

I mean, that sounds like a great climb to ride your bike. Thats a lot better than the joke that is Denmark and Holland, for example..

At least I envy such terrain!

Haha, perhaps I'm being ungrateful! If I lived in Italy though - or in the Alps/ Pyrenees in France, that would be heaven.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Think today was designed for the break and the next 2 stages should work as a pair

Oh yes, the combination of stage 17 and stage 18 should give us great racing, I actually expect bigger gaps between the gc riders on stage 18.