- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,923
- 44,310
- 28,180
I would claim that this is more or less the new normal for the Tour. The mountain stages designed for attack earlier than the last climb are few and really far between.
- Feb 20, 2010
- 33,064
- 15,272
- 28,180
It's a bizarre system. Now that they can broadcast more of the action, they want to compress that action into a smaller amount of time.
- Jan 4, 2020
- 6,327
- 7,737
- 16,180
I think it could be a great race if for instance UAE with an improved team, Jumbo with their best team, Ineos with their best team and several leaders and DQS with a fit Evenepoel contested this route. Then we would actually have a battle and the riders would not be able to ride defensively. (Won't happen, especially not with the still Corona-influenced season and possible Olympics.) If only one team shows up in best shape or there's one clearly superior rider, it's very hard for a route to be good.
- Jan 4, 2020
- 6,327
- 7,737
- 16,180
Also, van Aert is planning to win this race (say the rumours in my head).
- Feb 18, 2015
- 13,820
- 9,810
- 28,180
It's just so meh. Some highlights are the TT's, the Ventoux stage, the stage to Carcassonne that smells like crosswinds and I like the pyrenees mtf's. I guess the stage to Andorra is decent too and I would like it a lot more if it was advertised as a medium mountain stage, but frankly as one of the 6 main mountain stages a design where the best case scenario is attacks on what is barely a 1st category climb just doesn't get me all that excited.
The Alps are genuinely horrible. Tignes as a mtf looks horrendous, and we've seen how good that Le Grand Bornand finish works as the first mountain stage in 2018. Moreover they decided to return to easier versions of the 2018 routes for no reason. Those mountain stages now just really aren't that hard.
The pyrenees actually have a similar problem. It's not as apparent because both the Col de Portet and Luz Ardiden are hard enough mtf's, for those stages most likely being all about those climbs anyway. But yeah, I'm still pretty disappointed they decided to skipp the Bales and the Aspin.
Another thing that massively annoys me is that there seem to be 3 very interesting medium mountain stages (stages 7, 14, 16) that are now doomed to go to the break with the peloton cruising in 15 minutes later because every single one of them comes before a high mountain stage. Not like there was ever a high chance of a gc showdown on those days, but now this makes it even less likely.
Okay looking at it all and giving it some thought I don't think the route is absolutely horrible. Unfortunately I also don't think it's much better than that. I like that they decided to return to a bit more TT'ing, but especially because the climbers will have to make up more time next year it's so stupid the mountain stages are looking so weak. I prepare for the absolute worst in the Alps and really expect the first serious gc moves to come on the Mon Ventoux. I guess the big pyrenees mtf's will be fine but why not just have those sort of stages in the Alps already. This route really could have done with a big mtf in the first week.
The Alps are genuinely horrible. Tignes as a mtf looks horrendous, and we've seen how good that Le Grand Bornand finish works as the first mountain stage in 2018. Moreover they decided to return to easier versions of the 2018 routes for no reason. Those mountain stages now just really aren't that hard.
The pyrenees actually have a similar problem. It's not as apparent because both the Col de Portet and Luz Ardiden are hard enough mtf's, for those stages most likely being all about those climbs anyway. But yeah, I'm still pretty disappointed they decided to skipp the Bales and the Aspin.
Another thing that massively annoys me is that there seem to be 3 very interesting medium mountain stages (stages 7, 14, 16) that are now doomed to go to the break with the peloton cruising in 15 minutes later because every single one of them comes before a high mountain stage. Not like there was ever a high chance of a gc showdown on those days, but now this makes it even less likely.
Okay looking at it all and giving it some thought I don't think the route is absolutely horrible. Unfortunately I also don't think it's much better than that. I like that they decided to return to a bit more TT'ing, but especially because the climbers will have to make up more time next year it's so stupid the mountain stages are looking so weak. I prepare for the absolute worst in the Alps and really expect the first serious gc moves to come on the Mon Ventoux. I guess the big pyrenees mtf's will be fine but why not just have those sort of stages in the Alps already. This route really could have done with a big mtf in the first week.
It looks like they neutered the Andorra and Portet stages last minute, so the first TT that was rumored to be ~ 50k was cut in half. That would be my best guess.
The mountain stages are butter soft. They don't have to go 5500m +, I actually like the fact that they don't go the Giro route, but they don't have to turn the race into a joke either.
- Jun 7, 2010
- 19,196
- 3,092
- 28,180
I think stage 7 should be fine in a battle between attackers against teams of better climbing sprinters sort of way
I doubt that there would have been any genuine GC action anyway even without the mountains next
I doubt that there would have been any genuine GC action anyway even without the mountains next
- Feb 21, 2019
- 4,345
- 6,975
- 16,180
Overall I like the route.
A decent amount of ITT is finally back although I would prefr one of them to be hilly and longer but its still much better than any of the last yearsand that first TT will force climbers to attack in the alps.
Regarding the remaining stages, some of them are quite good like the Ventoux one but I agree that the Alps are too easy, Jumbo train will probably neutralise the Colombier and Tignes stages. I am glad that the Pyrenees are finally back to the third week and some of the stages and quite hard but I agree that the Luz Ardiden stage should have been harder (this Tour lacks a super hard mountain stage) and the Andorra stage is particularly hard either. Hope for some wind to spice things up in the first week but its always a lottery. At least sprinters will be happy with the amount of flat stages.
Speaking about the possible contenders, Jumbo could hardly have been happier (only if we had a TTT as well). Both Dumoulin and Roglic have a great route for them and I have little doubt that both will be present. Thomas also has a very good route and could be Ineos main option although Bernal might still be an option and someone like Porte could also be in the mix. Carapaz will surely go the Giro. Pogačar also has an interesting route but it won't be easy to defend his crown and climbers like Pinot, Mas or Quintana will have a tough time even reaching podium. Finally I end this post with Evenepoel because if he decides to ride this, he has a great route for him and who knows what may happen.
A decent amount of ITT is finally back although I would prefr one of them to be hilly and longer but its still much better than any of the last yearsand that first TT will force climbers to attack in the alps.
Regarding the remaining stages, some of them are quite good like the Ventoux one but I agree that the Alps are too easy, Jumbo train will probably neutralise the Colombier and Tignes stages. I am glad that the Pyrenees are finally back to the third week and some of the stages and quite hard but I agree that the Luz Ardiden stage should have been harder (this Tour lacks a super hard mountain stage) and the Andorra stage is particularly hard either. Hope for some wind to spice things up in the first week but its always a lottery. At least sprinters will be happy with the amount of flat stages.
Speaking about the possible contenders, Jumbo could hardly have been happier (only if we had a TTT as well). Both Dumoulin and Roglic have a great route for them and I have little doubt that both will be present. Thomas also has a very good route and could be Ineos main option although Bernal might still be an option and someone like Porte could also be in the mix. Carapaz will surely go the Giro. Pogačar also has an interesting route but it won't be easy to defend his crown and climbers like Pinot, Mas or Quintana will have a tough time even reaching podium. Finally I end this post with Evenepoel because if he decides to ride this, he has a great route for him and who knows what may happen.
Not really with Olympics coming
Van Aert sees opportunities in opening week of the 2021 Tour de France
Belgian weighing green jersey aspirations with Olympic Games preparation
www.cyclingnews.com
- Sep 2, 2011
- 17,533
- 13,756
- 28,180
Tour presentation is truly the forum pinnacle.
All top posters come to play, ASO is ridiculed in every possible way, negativity and nostalgia are handed for free and everybody is in such a sh*t mood that you almost forget tomorrow's Monday.
Keep it up, guys.
All top posters come to play, ASO is ridiculed in every possible way, negativity and nostalgia are handed for free and everybody is in such a sh*t mood that you almost forget tomorrow's Monday.
Keep it up, guys.
- Jun 7, 2010
- 19,196
- 3,092
- 28,180
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,923
- 44,310
- 28,180
- Aug 6, 2010
- 6,884
- 6,216
- 23,180
Initial few thoughts are that total amount of ITT kms is pretty disappointing. Thought that 80+ was a decent chance. I should have known.
I actually like that stage 9 is not very hard, as it may encourage good racing on stage 8, though for this I would also like stage 8 to be harder overall.
Stage 11 with double Ventoux looks great, and means that for a change, the route won't be particularly back loaded.
Which is probably better for Roglic than it is for Pogacar.
Pyrenees seem alright, but would like stage 15 to be harder. Watering down the Luz Ardiden stage isn't really a problem, given that it's the last mountain stage (the harder you make it, the more it discourages good racing in earlier stages).
As Gigs98 said, a negative is that the medium mountain stages are poorly placed.
I actually like that stage 9 is not very hard, as it may encourage good racing on stage 8, though for this I would also like stage 8 to be harder overall.
Stage 11 with double Ventoux looks great, and means that for a change, the route won't be particularly back loaded.
Which is probably better for Roglic than it is for Pogacar.
Pyrenees seem alright, but would like stage 15 to be harder. Watering down the Luz Ardiden stage isn't really a problem, given that it's the last mountain stage (the harder you make it, the more it discourages good racing in earlier stages).
As Gigs98 said, a negative is that the medium mountain stages are poorly placed.
It looks like they are giving up on Pinot. Actually with some many flat stages and the mountains not that hard, the route is made for Demare and a possible green jersey contention. Ala with a good chance to keep the yellow until ITT but I don't think he would go for GC. We might get a big competition for green jersey next year with Demare, Bennett, Sagan, VDP and maybe even WVA.
- Feb 24, 2014
- 15,228
- 3,122
- 28,180
Precedes the rest day, thus not that tragic imo.
++ recently the Tour doesn't shy from smaller roads and towns (Quillan, Landerneau and Pontivy stages). Also, Col Saint-Louis is quite spectacular
++ half of Solaison before Romme/Colombiere combo
++ good Ventoux stage
++ at least Beixalis on the Andorra stage
++ a bit more TT kms than usually (i really though the Laval stage to be a TTT)
++ somebody was saying something about not having "endurance" stages so you have a Le Creusot stage with possibly Signal d'Uchon as a place to give a Voeckler chance to shock the crowd while givin some additional mileage before the Romme/Colombiere stage day later
++ i'm not sure about the first stage but apparently it's a bit harder and Landerneau can provide some nice bergs (my first posted here race i designed had a finish in Landerneau)
-- Mur-de-Bretagne... srsly!? ban it right with LPdBF (back in 2022 folks!)
-- apparently the landerneau stage ends on a random berg... why is Mur-de-Bretagne still a thing?
-- the mountain stages a bit... flat?
-- maybe just Tourmalet/Luz-Ardinen stage is enough to provide a good showdown? I dunno. On paper it definitely could be better
-- I would love to say that Pyrenees are a fair bit harder than the Alps which makes me fear the Alps will be nullified but... they all are flat
-- this Romme/Colombiere gets a lil bit overused and once again wrongly placed as the first moutain stage
-- transfers, transfers, transfers... but then it's not their fault. It depends on the place's interest. Ideally the Tours depart should be moved somewhere westwards and maybe also switch S-P-T-CH with Sorgues
-- once again the mountain stages seems to be flat-ish
-- srsly... there are like 5 HC climbs of which 2 (Pre & Luz-Ardinen) are borderline. Please, pleeeease let Envalira and Tignes be also HC just to fudge with people with their gigantic middle finger stuck inside our rear end
++ half of Solaison before Romme/Colombiere combo
++ good Ventoux stage
++ at least Beixalis on the Andorra stage
++ a bit more TT kms than usually (i really though the Laval stage to be a TTT)
++ somebody was saying something about not having "endurance" stages so you have a Le Creusot stage with possibly Signal d'Uchon as a place to give a Voeckler chance to shock the crowd while givin some additional mileage before the Romme/Colombiere stage day later
++ i'm not sure about the first stage but apparently it's a bit harder and Landerneau can provide some nice bergs (my first posted here race i designed had a finish in Landerneau)
-- Mur-de-Bretagne... srsly!? ban it right with LPdBF (back in 2022 folks!)
-- apparently the landerneau stage ends on a random berg... why is Mur-de-Bretagne still a thing?
-- the mountain stages a bit... flat?
-- maybe just Tourmalet/Luz-Ardinen stage is enough to provide a good showdown? I dunno. On paper it definitely could be better
-- I would love to say that Pyrenees are a fair bit harder than the Alps which makes me fear the Alps will be nullified but... they all are flat
-- this Romme/Colombiere gets a lil bit overused and once again wrongly placed as the first moutain stage
-- transfers, transfers, transfers... but then it's not their fault. It depends on the place's interest. Ideally the Tours depart should be moved somewhere westwards and maybe also switch S-P-T-CH with Sorgues
-- once again the mountain stages seems to be flat-ish
-- srsly... there are like 5 HC climbs of which 2 (Pre & Luz-Ardinen) are borderline. Please, pleeeease let Envalira and Tignes be also HC just to fudge with people with their gigantic middle finger stuck inside our rear end
I don't believe the guy will replicate the Peyresourde and La PdBF performances.
- Feb 20, 2012
- 53,923
- 44,310
- 28,180
Those 2 performances were a repeat of his 3rd Vuelta stage win last year in the first place.
This might actually say more about the ASO and usual TDF-routes but I am pleasantly surprised.
First week is decent. Not as good as this year but considering this years routedesign was very apart for a TDF, I never expected it to be duplicated right away.
If Preudhomme speaks the truth stage 1 as well as stage 2 suits the puncheurs. Happy that it won't be complete boredom of sprints. Stage 5 is an ITT and normally, I am not a huge fan of ITT's but considering it replaces a boring sprintparty in week one, I am fairly satisfied. It is true that the race could be killed but on the other hand if some GC-riders already fall way behind here, all the more reason to attack more in the mountains. Stage 7 is a pleasant surprise and although it will provide no GC-action it should be a stage with some entertainment. Stage 8 and 9 are in a way very disappointing but at the same time they are still classified as mountain-stages. What puzzles me the most are the lengths. Why two stages in a row with only 150 km so early in the race? Hopefully it will result in lots of action on both of them but I do agree, that these two stages could have been designed so much better. Especially the Tignes-stage is disappointing and I foresee a break-away win it with a bunch-sprint among the GC-riders. Romme-Colombiere combo could have worked later in the race and also with the chance to attack "early" on Romme. As the first mountain stage in the entire race, I don't expect a lot before Colombiere.
All-in-all during the first week, there are only three pure sprint stages (Stage 3, 4 and 6). Remember we are used to maybe 7 sprint stages in the first week. This route provides good variation in the first week.
Second week is also decent. Stage 10 and 12 seems reserved for the sprinters. Stage 13 may also be a sprint stage but to me it looked liked maybe it is a bit hilly. Before a full stage profile is released, I don't know whether to be happy about this one but Carcasonne is at least always nice to see. Stage 11 with Mount Ventoux twice and even a Col de la Liguere as a legwarmer? 199 km? Sounds good to me and I really like the experiment with a downhill finish. Probably the best stage-design of the entire race (in my opinion). The other mountain stage in week two is the one to Andorra La Vella. I can understand it is not popular but I prefer it to the usual Andorra-Arcalis MTF where nothing really happens anyway. At least next year we will see Bexailes and then a downhill finish. It is also with a decent length. With a rest day to follow, there will be no reason to save the legs. Stage 14 is disappointing if you want to analyze it as a mountain stage. Instead I see it more as a medium mountain stage with an opportunity for the GC to go a little crazy near the end. It is probably unlikely the race will explode but for a Grand Tour these kind of medium mountain stages belong as well. All-in-all I am again satisfied. Two mountain stages, one medium mountain stage, one hilly stage and two sure things for the sprinters. Good variation!
The last week can be divided into two mountain stages, one medium mountain stage, two sprint stages and an ITT. Again good variation. To begin the third week with a medium mountain stage is fine by me. GC-guys will find their legs again and break-away riders with mountain skills should be able to prevail here. A bit of a waste of good mountains. They didn't need to be so tough to accomplish its purpose. The two mountain stages comes in the right order. The first one (178 km) is a bit short. I would have liked it to be 200 km. It would have justified the Luz Ardiden stage to only be 130 km. At least we can dream of some early action on Tourmalet.
People (including myself) have complained for years on how the Pyrenees are always sacrificed. Next year there will be 5 stages that more or less can be categorized as Pyrenneer-stages. The Alps a disappointing but with Ventoux to bridge that gap, we have seen much worse over the years. My biggest criticism of the route is that there is no really hard mountain stage. However if compared to this year, that is nothing new.
I get that the TDF 2021-route compared to most (if not all) Giro-routes is pure crap but considering it is Tour-standards, I find it fairly good.
First week is decent. Not as good as this year but considering this years routedesign was very apart for a TDF, I never expected it to be duplicated right away.
If Preudhomme speaks the truth stage 1 as well as stage 2 suits the puncheurs. Happy that it won't be complete boredom of sprints. Stage 5 is an ITT and normally, I am not a huge fan of ITT's but considering it replaces a boring sprintparty in week one, I am fairly satisfied. It is true that the race could be killed but on the other hand if some GC-riders already fall way behind here, all the more reason to attack more in the mountains. Stage 7 is a pleasant surprise and although it will provide no GC-action it should be a stage with some entertainment. Stage 8 and 9 are in a way very disappointing but at the same time they are still classified as mountain-stages. What puzzles me the most are the lengths. Why two stages in a row with only 150 km so early in the race? Hopefully it will result in lots of action on both of them but I do agree, that these two stages could have been designed so much better. Especially the Tignes-stage is disappointing and I foresee a break-away win it with a bunch-sprint among the GC-riders. Romme-Colombiere combo could have worked later in the race and also with the chance to attack "early" on Romme. As the first mountain stage in the entire race, I don't expect a lot before Colombiere.
All-in-all during the first week, there are only three pure sprint stages (Stage 3, 4 and 6). Remember we are used to maybe 7 sprint stages in the first week. This route provides good variation in the first week.
Second week is also decent. Stage 10 and 12 seems reserved for the sprinters. Stage 13 may also be a sprint stage but to me it looked liked maybe it is a bit hilly. Before a full stage profile is released, I don't know whether to be happy about this one but Carcasonne is at least always nice to see. Stage 11 with Mount Ventoux twice and even a Col de la Liguere as a legwarmer? 199 km? Sounds good to me and I really like the experiment with a downhill finish. Probably the best stage-design of the entire race (in my opinion). The other mountain stage in week two is the one to Andorra La Vella. I can understand it is not popular but I prefer it to the usual Andorra-Arcalis MTF where nothing really happens anyway. At least next year we will see Bexailes and then a downhill finish. It is also with a decent length. With a rest day to follow, there will be no reason to save the legs. Stage 14 is disappointing if you want to analyze it as a mountain stage. Instead I see it more as a medium mountain stage with an opportunity for the GC to go a little crazy near the end. It is probably unlikely the race will explode but for a Grand Tour these kind of medium mountain stages belong as well. All-in-all I am again satisfied. Two mountain stages, one medium mountain stage, one hilly stage and two sure things for the sprinters. Good variation!
The last week can be divided into two mountain stages, one medium mountain stage, two sprint stages and an ITT. Again good variation. To begin the third week with a medium mountain stage is fine by me. GC-guys will find their legs again and break-away riders with mountain skills should be able to prevail here. A bit of a waste of good mountains. They didn't need to be so tough to accomplish its purpose. The two mountain stages comes in the right order. The first one (178 km) is a bit short. I would have liked it to be 200 km. It would have justified the Luz Ardiden stage to only be 130 km. At least we can dream of some early action on Tourmalet.
People (including myself) have complained for years on how the Pyrenees are always sacrificed. Next year there will be 5 stages that more or less can be categorized as Pyrenneer-stages. The Alps a disappointing but with Ventoux to bridge that gap, we have seen much worse over the years. My biggest criticism of the route is that there is no really hard mountain stage. However if compared to this year, that is nothing new.
I get that the TDF 2021-route compared to most (if not all) Giro-routes is pure crap but considering it is Tour-standards, I find it fairly good.
- Jun 7, 2010
- 19,196
- 3,092
- 28,180
Eh, scratch that.
Looks way too difficult for any fast finishers not named van Aert, so have no idea how that stage will play out.
I worded it wrongly. What i have in mind is that the guy looks to me quite erratic. I consider him to be more of a super Valverde tan a genuine Froominator. In that Vuelta he was quite shaky and in the Tour he had some problems on Loze, but there wasn't any seriously bad day besides the bad (had he a puncture just before? i don't remember) positioning on the windy stage. I still think he may be a bit more erratic in the future. We'll see.
Ventoux will be or already is a regional natural park so finishes at the top may face some problems in the future.
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