Tour de France Tour de France 2021, Stage 3: Lorient - Pontivy, 183.9 km

[saunaking]

Start the race with at least two stages that separate rider by STRENGHT. And I mean real separation. Like Vuelta last year. We had about 6 contenders left after the first three stages. And then you can have as many flat stages as you want. But the 20 GC contenders who are already out of the game will not try to be in the top 30 positions in the peloton at 5km to go. The problem with the Tour is that the race starts with a flat week - and about 30 riders think that they are good enough to podium the Tour. And they are all determined not to lose a single second on flat stages. Add to that 15 sprinters, who are fresh and gearing up for the first sprint finish - each thinking that they are the fastest. A recipe for disaster on any route, especially bad surfaced narrow downhill one...

Last year the Tour had two mountain stages in the first four stages. And it was far less crashes there. And the aformentioned Vuelta 2020 - basically no huge crashes in the whole race.

I dont have an issue with starting a race with harder stages, but it doesn't change the fact that

No, the farther you move out the GC safety zone means the less GC riders need to fight to stay in the front to avoid splits, which IMHO is part of being a good GC rider. And it's what separates top GC riders from riders like Richie Porte, who can ITT and climb with the best but isn't good at anything else required to race.

Yes but 10k is a good balance. Leaves the sprint teams time to setup and battle while the GC guys still have to be on point for 95% of the race

 

[Valv.Piti]

A prologue imo doesn't solve anything. The next day it's still the same, riders are wanting the win.

If you add some challenging stages, it could really help. But Franceøs geography makes it so hard to do on a consistent basis, unfortunately.

 

[Luthor]

Colbrelli said bars were entangled. I tend to believe Colbrelli rather than footage that doesn't even show the actual contact.
And it's clear from the way Roglic falls, that he is losing balance very suddenly. This can only be due to something like entangled bars, and / or overlapping wheels.
According to Colbrelli, Roglic tried to move up. So Roglic was probably not exactly on the same height as Colbrelli.

Colbrelli wouldn't obviously recognize the contact as he would be DSQ. If the bars would be entangled than Roglic's crash would've happened at a lower speed and Colbrelli would be shaken up. Also Colbrelli's gesture does show frustration, but he doesn't explain it later why. Why would Roglic not say their bars entagled if that was the truth?
The footage is quite clear to me, why would we believe rider's position when their interest is clear to minimize the effect. Also it was a statement far after the end of the race, when the PR of Bahrain already went in.

 

[Broccolidwarf]

So, you think it was directed to somebody else, and not to Roglic??

As said - I don't know - nor does anyone else.

I will refrain from making sh!t up, as that is exactly what bothers me with all the hysterics.

 

[Volderke]

you tend to believe Colbrelli over video and Roglic, he falls exactly like if you are bodychecked

Yes I tend to believe Colbrelli over a video where you don't even see the actual contact. Or do you? Please provide a video still.

If Roglic would fall exactly like being bodychecked, his bike wouldn't lag behind. As his bike lagged behind, it was clearly held back by either that moment of entangling bars and/or a wheel overlap. It's really not that hard to see.

 

[MartinGT]

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[saunaking]

Hence why I said what else you can do. But you make a very good point which is the tricky part and a huge problem. But generally, stage 1 is THE most nervous stage, especially if it isnt any hard. So simply by opening with a prologue you can eliminate that extreme tension on the first day, but you still have some troubles the next.

I don't think we should necessarily try and take away the 'nervousness' of the 1st or early stages. That is part of the drama and pressure of the tour. But I do think something should be done to improve rider safety in the last 10k or whatever by taking the GC time gaps there. Crashes at 40k to go due to nervousness are a shame but a part of the race that is difficult to get rid of. Its the ones in the finale that could be made preventable that should be targeted

 

[Broccolidwarf]

Yes I tend to believe Colbrelli over a video where you don't even see the actual contact. Or do you? Please provide a video still.

If Roglic would fall exactly like being bodychecked, his bike wouldn't lag behind. As his bike lagged behind, it was clearly held back by either that moment of entangling bars and/or a wheel overlap. It's really not that hard to see.

I'm, beginning to think topt doesn't even own a bike

 

[MartinGT]

If you add some challenging stages, it could really help. But Franceøs geography makes it so hard to do on a consistent basis, unfortunately.

The opening two states have been challenging.

 

[Oldermanish]

How would you feel if you almost crashed because your bars entangled?
It was a combination of being scared, angry, stressed and disappointed someone crashed, all at the same time.

Roglic was surfing the edges on both sides alot and occasionally losing WvA's wheel. He was on the grass at least once as the pack moved so that happens alot. He was on Colbreli's side and doing the same top-five dance. Colbreli likely reacted to a bump or the wheels around him and they both almost went down. I'd be irritated, too and edgy. He was tasked to win the stage while the GC guy he tangled with was just in the mix to his way of thinking (Sprinter). I doubt it was intentional but Colbreli, Ewan, Sagan all are bad wheels to be around near a finish unless you plan to contest the win. GC guys like Roglic can contest certain stages but not a downhill suicide run if they want to stay in one piece. Roglic was in the wrong place at the wrong time and probably won't make the same mistake again.

 

[Volderke]

Colbrelli wouldn't obviously recognize the contact as he would be DSQ. If the bars would be entangled than Roglic's crash would've happened at a lower speed and Colbrelli would be shaken up. Also Colbrelli's gesture does show frustration, but he doesn't explain it later why. Why would Roglic not say their bars entagled if that was the truth?
The footage is quite clear to me, why would we believe rider's position when their interest is clear to minimize the effect. Also it was a statement far after the end of the race, when the PR of Bahrain already went in.

You are the one looking too deep into this.
Colbrelli immediately gestured so he didn't hide there was contact. If you are a bully bodychecking, you wouldn't immediately gesture so everyone can see.
He probably didn't even know Roglic was coming on his left rear end the moment he was moving to the right. Next, the contact happened (bars or whatever), and next, Roglic crashed. Colbrelli was obviously in a bit of shock, both scared by the contact, and angry because he probably lost some balance as well.

If Roglic really thinks it was a bodycheck, and even one intentionally, he wouldn't retract his tweet, and he would file a complaint. It seems Jumbo (and Roglic) realize that Colbrelli is not to blame and it's just unfortunate.

 

[saunaking]

Roglic was surfing the edges on both sides alot and occasionally losing WvA's wheel. He was on the grass at least once as the pack moved so that happens alot. He was on Colbreli's side and doing the same top-five dance. Colbreli likely reacted to a bump or the wheels around him and they both almost went down. I'd be irritated, too and edgy. He was tasked to win the stage while the GC guy he tangled with was just in the mix to his way of thinking (Sprinter). I doubt it was intentional but Colbreli, Ewan, Sagan all are bad wheels to be around near a finish unless you plan to contest the win. GC guys like Roglic can contest certain stages but not a downhill suicide run if they want to stay in one piece. Roglic was in the wrong place at the wrong time and probably won't make the same mistake again.

I dont know exactly what happened but Rog sure does crash a lot.

 

[Kaptain Kool]

Cool, so remind me, when did such a split occur within the last 10K of a bunch spinters stage - and had a significant impact on GC?

I don't understand the relevance? If you expand to 10km, once there's a crash or mechanical or other disturbance in the peloton in the bloated safety zone, the GC riders would ease up because they know they'd get the same time. I mean, you could move it out to 100 km as well since there aren't splits on flat stages without weather impact.

 

[topt]

As said - I don't know - nor does anyone else.

I will refrain from making sh!t up, as that is exactly what bothers me with all the hysterics.

oh you know,it just doesnt fit the agenda

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Just watched the highlights with Millar. Man the dude is another Ineos fan boy. He has the horn for Thomas asking where he was all the time.

I thought I would give ITV a try today but lasted about 20 minutes. Thomas had crashed and after a while I turned over to GCN and only then did I find out Gesink had abandoned. The ITV dicks didn't even mention it.

 

[pinkobalinko]

I don't know what all the polemic is about? Colbrelli explained it perfectly in few words: Roglic was moving forward and their handlebars tangled.
I even don't know what was that fuss about Jakobsen and Groenewegen. Sonny can explain it perfectly: Fabio was moving forward and got tangled with Groenewegen.

Sonny, this one is for you:

 

[topt]

Yes I tend to believe Colbrelli over a video where you don't even see the actual contact. Or do you? Please provide a video still.

If Roglic would fall exactly like being bodychecked, his bike wouldn't lag behind. As his bike lagged behind, it was clearly held back by either that moment of entangling bars and/or a wheel overlap. It's really not that hard to see.

and Roglic.

why would the bike lag behind if you are holding the bars, makes no sense

 

[bajbar]

Roglic was surfing the edges on both sides alot and occasionally losing WvA's wheel. He was on the grass at least once as the pack moved so that happens alot. He was on Colbreli's side and doing the same top-five dance. Colbreli likely reacted to a bump or the wheels around him and they both almost went down. I'd be irritated, too and edgy. He was tasked to win the stage while the GC guy he tangled with was just in the mix to his way of thinking (Sprinter). I doubt it was intentional but Colbreli, Ewan, Sagan all are bad wheels to be around near a finish unless you plan to contest the win. GC guys like Roglic can contest certain stages but not a downhill suicide run if they want to stay in one piece. Roglic was in the wrong place at the wrong time and probably won't make the same mistake again.

Roglič was mixing with the sprinters because the way the race is ridden forces him to do so. If he is further back a crash in front splits the pack and he loses a minute in a race decided by seconds. Make sure the GC riders don't have to worry about losing seconds in finishes like today and you will have a safer race. Make the 3km rule a 15km rule - if a crash happens in those 15km then no time gaps will be applied. That way sprinters can have plenty of time to organise and GC guys can surf wheels at the back. And for those who say "What if the crash happen 17km to go" - well, 17km seems like enough time for a rider to come back - but a crash like today with 5km to go gives basically no chance to anyone who crashed to catch up with the pack...

 

[Oldermanish]

I dont know exactly what happened but Rog sure does crash a lot.

He ends up free lancing when it's flat. He was safer up to that point because he was close to WvA but both of them got pushed into the grass on the right side earlier. He spends too much time and energy fighting for that front tier spot.

 

[saunaking]

I don't understand the relevance? If you expand to 10km, once there's a crash or mechanical or other disturbance in the peloton in the bloated safety zone, the GC riders would ease up because they know they'd get the same time. I mean, you could move it out to 100 km as well since there aren't splits on flat stages without weather impact.

Yes, but that is the point. The bloated safety zone in fact would have much less crashes because the risk/reward tradeoff would be so elevated that the GC teams would knock off the pace and sit behind the sprint teams.

 

[Oldermanish]

Roglič was mixing with the sprinters because the way the race is ridden forces him to do so. If he is further back a crash in front splits the pack and he loses a minute in a race decided by seconds. Make sure the GC riders don't have to worry about losing seconds in finishes like today and you will have a safer race. Make the 3km rule a 15km rule - if a crash happens in those 15km then no time gaps will be applied. That way sprinters can have plenty of time to organise and GC guys can surf wheels at the back. And for those who say "What if the crash happen 17km to go" - well, 17km seems like enough time for a rider to come back - but a crash like today with 5km to go gives basically no chance to anyone who crashed to catch up with the pack...

I agree but the riders need to step up the pressure to minimize ridiculously tight roads on these courses. Expanding the safe zone is an endless possibility. Ask the UCI Prez why he would want the stage to end in his home town with that shi*ty approach? There's the guy that should lose his job over stuff like this.

 

[saunaking]

Roglič was mixing with the sprinters because the way the race is ridden forces him to do so. If he is further back a crash in front splits the pack and he loses a minute in a race decided by seconds. Make sure the GC riders don't have to worry about losing seconds in finishes like today and you will have a safer race. Make the 3km rule a 15km rule - if a crash happens in those 15km then no time gaps will be applied. That way sprinters can have plenty of time to organise and GC guys can surf wheels at the back. And for those who say "What if the crash happen 17km to go" - well, 17km seems like enough time for a rider to come back - but a crash like today with 5km to go gives basically no chance to anyone who crashed to catch up with the pack...

Yes, we can debate the distance but the neutralized time zone at the end of sprint stages should def. be moved out from 3k to basically the point where the sprint teams are taking it up

 

[saunaking]

I agree but the riders need to step up the pressure to minimize ridiculously tight roads on these courses. Expanding the safe zone is an endless possibility. Ask the UCI Prez why he would want the stage to end in his home town with that shi*ty approach? There's the guy that should lose his job over stuff like this.

I mean they can decide when to have piss breaks on their own, how about another gentleman's agreement for their own safety at the end of stages like this

 

[Broccolidwarf]

I don't understand the relevance? If you expand to 10km, once there's a crash or mechanical or other disturbance in the peloton in the bloated safety zone, the GC riders would ease up because they know they'd get the same time. I mean, you could move it out to 100 km as well since there aren't splits on flat stages without weather impact.

But it's a non-problem - it never happens - inside the last 10K. on these types of stages - except in the case of crashes, which is what we are trying to fix.

Your "100K" argument is just ridiculous.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Let's just go back to no TV coverage and ban spectators and fans on the route and have three weeks of nothing exciting actually happening in the race, while the newspapers and radio commentators describe all sorts of epic action that we wish we could have seen.