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Tour de France Tour de France 2022: Stage 11 (Albertville – Col du Granon Serre Chevalier, 151.7k)

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I wonder how much today s just a slap in the face for UAE.

There was quite some talking about Pogacar dropping record numbers in training, they acted like it would be easy, and they didn't even bring their 2nd and 3rd best climbers to the race.
I think their climbing support has been pretty fine actually also considering they are down Bennett. First week though they just got bailed out singlehandedly by Pogacar, his team was nonexistent
 
Hence why Jumbo denied Kämna the yellow jersey yesterday, to force all the workload on Pogacar and UAE
Exactly. Crying about not being handed (emphasis on that last word) the yellow jersey from Bora struck me as completely out of place, if not hilarious. "Sure, we'll let you wear yellow so the pressure is off UAE." I mean, what the hell were Bora thinking there?
Not to mention, it made em come off as a bunch of pouting children.

Anyway, this has been one of the most epic stages I have ever seen. Depending on where we were in the stage, memories of Contador vs Schleck and Froome in the Giro passed my mind. On many occasions, I have been the first to call em the failtrain, but today TJVhad a plan and actually delivered. Truly epic stuff.

However, perhaps the best is even yet to come. With Bardet at second place and Pogacar still in the fight I dare believe even more epic stuff is bound to happen.
edit and let's not forget Geraint. He's been anticipating every move perfectly today. Respect for that as well.

I've been a cyclingfan for about 20 years and I haven't felt this much anticipation for the rest of the race halfway into a Tour since... I don't know??
 
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Did Chris Froome ever crack in a spectacular way (while being dominant)?

Froomey version 2 never truly cracked at the tour. He lost some token seconds to Quintana but only after he had the race practically sewn up. But for team orders in 2012 and the crash in 2014 he probably would have won 6 consecutive tours such was his dominance during that period. Versions 1 and 3, now that’s a completely different story!
 
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View: https://www.instagram.com/p/Cf9a8TjNqLP/
Was that in his home town?
 
Have to say Gaudu is the quietest 3 mins back I've seen in a while. And where did Bardet come from? These guys have been in the race??

To be fair, there hadn't been proper mountains until today's stage. The most selective one was LPdBF, but the gaps were rather small and the climb doesn't suit riders like Quintana or Gaudu too much. Probably the best thing a climber like Gaudu could do until today was to maintain a low profile and just try to lose as little time as possible.
 
Okay, I've lurked here for years, but you finally made me make an account just to call you out. Really? Get back under your rock.
Agreed. Pretty gross, demeaning comment
That was the other epic stage of the century, saw that one unfolding live too.
Difference was that Froome, despite coming from behind, was the top dog in that field. Today we saw the dethroning of the champ who was supposed to be invincible, like Indurain in 96. Always a spectacular sight.
That being said, Finestre was even more spectacular to watch, but this comes damn close.
Agreed. I think the extra satisfaction and thrill of this one was the complexity of it. The suspense with Froome was whether or not he could maintain the watts (he could). But this was JV shaking off the ghosts of the past committing to the yellow jersey with attack after attack, giving the people what they want, giving the race what it deserves, giving the requisite effort to take the yellow jersey and being rewarded for it. To me, this is up there with Fuente De and, I admit, the Froome stage was pretty spectacular.
So when Van Aert brings back Vingegaard in the Cobbles stage he is not a good team member because he left Roglic and when Van Aert brings back Roglic he is not a good team member for leaving Vingegaard. It looks like he can only be a good teammate if he clones himself.
I know you're being facetious and we've all been hard on Wout, and I also admit that TJV might be able to somehow drink all of the wine, GC, stages, and green, but obviously different decisions make sense in different situations. In stage 5, Wout should have pulled Roglic back onto the wheel so he wouldn't lose time. Today, he probably should have stayed with Vingegaard, although you make the case that Pogacar was clearly so worried about Roglic that bringing him back and sending him to the front dealt a psychological blow to Pogi that cause him to then spurr Majka on to drop Roglic, which in turn further cooked himself. So debatable.
Jumbo effectively killed Pogacar today. He had to respond to so many attacks he cooked himself and probably forgot to eat as well.

Stupid bluff by counter attacking himself as well.
Just brilliant stuff by Jumbo. I wasn't on this thread in real time, as I couldn't watch it until later, so when I read through here afterward, I was surprised that all the comments in the 30s and early 40s of this thread were so negative about Rabofail this and Rabofail that. They played it very, very well overall. I just personally wish it was for Roglic, as a fan.
yes, and yes again, rog was ultimately going nowhere. he sacrificed himself and pog's huuuuuuge mistake was to over-estimate rog. he should have asked me... :p
Man it just kills me that folks are using today's heroic and selfless performance while injured as evidence that a guy who won the Vuelta in dominant fashion just last year, the gold at the Olympic again just last year, and Paris-Nice and the Dauphine while injured (how many people have won Olympic Gold, the Vuelta, Paris-Nice, and the Vuelta in their entire career, much less within 9 months?) is somehow no longer a top GC rider. Did you make it through that sentence?
From 2012-2018, we got used to the Tour being a mediocre race and lets face it, mainly due to Sky and the way they (smarly) rode the races. They rode to their captains strengths, but it was extremely boring. We can all agree on that.

Now the scales have tipped towards the Tour again after years where the Giro always outperformed TdF, and honestly, thats how it should be. I watched most Giro-stages this year and was bored out of my mind, but have more or less followed the Tour since stage 4 from the gun on each stage and can't say Im disappointed. Rather the opposite, it has been a great watch so far.
Somewhat agree, although I think it's been back and forth between the Giro and the Vuelta as the GC of the year for a while now. This, though, is the best 11 stages of a GT I've ever seen hands down, despite my guy Roglic going out.
I guess this puts to bed discussions about whether JV could have dropped Rog in the Dauphine.
I mean...if Roglic were healthy and you hadn't seen this stage, how much time would you think he'd put on Quintana, Bardet, Gaudu, and Geraint Thomas? I am not certain he could have hung with Vingegaard, but this doesn't prove anything IMO.
This was another reason today's stage was so great. Probably only Roglic (and maybe his team) knew how limited he might be, but they disguised it well. Roglic had just one bullet to fire to bait Pogi into following hard attacks, and today was the day. Any other stage from here on, and Pogi will just let Roglic go up the road. But today was a different story. Well played by TJV.
Roglic is a consummate professional and good guy, which came through today, and it was also great to see Pogacar learned from Roglic's humility in 2020 and showed extreme class after the finish.

Other thoughts:
  • Vingegaard is very, very lean, like peak Froome lean, to a degree that Roglic, Pogacar and previously Nibali, Contador, etc. never are/were. Most can't function that way, but that appears to be the difference for him
  • It was tough to watch Quinanta forlornly sign for water and receiving none from the team car, and then to see it play out again with Barguil was too much
  • I somehow came away from this liking Roglic, Pogacar, and Vingegaard more, which seemed an impossible outcome
 
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  • It was tough to watch Quinanta forlornly sign for water and receiving none from the team car, and then to see it play out again with Barguil was too much
I believe he was asking the car if Barguil had any bidon on him he could have, which by the look of it he had. After he passed Barguil he had a new bidon in his holder. He was too close to the finish to be allowed to be supplied by the team car. Remember Porte getting sugar for Froome on Alpe d'Huez at the team car in 2013 to try avoid a time penalty for the latter?
 
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Pog has raced the Tour so far like he has no limits, turns out he does. The shot that sums it up for me is Pog chasing down a doomed attack from Cherel with 5 km to go on a hilltop finish from second wheel in the peloton. That's partly on him on him for doing too much, and partly on the team for thinking they could get away with having such a weak group of domestiques.
 
Man it just kills me that folks are using today's heroic and selfless performance while injured as evidence that a guy who won the Vuelta in dominant fashion just last year, the gold at the Olympic again just last year, and Paris-Nice and the Dauphine while injured (how many people have won Olympic Gold, the Vuelta, Paris-Nice, and the Vuelta in their entire career, much less within 9 months?) is somehow no longer a top GC rider. Did you make it through that sentence?

I did!

All very fair points. As I have noted, it was just an observation from P-N onwards, how he looked riding. Always somewhat workmanlike in his star abilities, he seemed more labored and less dominant. These observations, and that’s all they were, also coincide with his age being kind of a watershed time. It is not that he is bad. But he is certainly not getting better (probably a little less dominant) and the others around him…some are getting better.

Just a feeling that has played out this season for a variety of reasons perhaps.

He could turn around and win the Vuelta again. I do not think that would change my sense that his TDF-winning window is closing, if not closed.

I hope I am wrong.
 
I did!

All very fair points. As I have noted, it was just an observation from P-N onwards, how he looked riding. Always somewhat workmanlike in his star abilities, he seemed more labored and less dominant. These observations, and that’s all they were, also coincide with his age being kind of a watershed time. It is not that he is bad. But he is certainly not getting better (probably a little less dominant) and the others around him…some are getting better.

Just a feeling that has played out this season for a variety of reasons perhaps.

He could turn around and win the Vuelta again. I do not think that would change my sense that his TDF-winning window is closing, if not closed.

I hope I am wrong.
I thought I’d shed readers for sure by the parentheses - thank you for making it through! Yeah, you’re probably right about him not improving and also about his window being closed to win the Tour. If Vingegaard seals this, it’s hard to imagine him not returning as sole leader next year. Still 10 stages to go though; let’s see what happens here. If we can see healthy Rog vs Pog vs Hindley vs Remco, that will make it more clear where Roglic is. Tough to really know this year because he’s had setback after setback. On the other hand, that’s typically a sign of aging, as you’re getting at.
 
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I'm almost sad to take the bait, but:

It's seven years since he first showed he was capable of riding GC in the Tour. It's four years since he won the whole thing, three years since he followed the win up with a second place, and you still moan about his existence because he once was a track rider? How about moving on? It must be so sad watching cycling from your perspective, always having to find a negative in even the best of stages (unless of course it's a women's race, in which case everything is of course always great).

The fact that he beat Pogacar today was of course primarily due to the fact that Pogacar cracked, which you very well know, yet you still must contrive yourself to a way to take a jab at Thomas who is riding a good race but not exactly exceeding expectations.

I don't get what your problem is with him, he seems like a perfectly nice and pleasant human being, and a very professional bike rider who really knows how to build himself up for his main goals even when people generally seem to have given up on him.
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