Tour de France Tour de France 2022: Stage 12 (Briançon – Alpe d’Huez, 165.1k)

[KZD]

Jonas.. I suffered today... so hot.. 35 degrees at the bottom..
Its was extreme moves Pogacar came with.

Vingegaard ain't bad at TT.. beated Roglich at the opening time trial here in 2022 TDF and not far after Pogacar (short one) and also distanced Pogacar in the 2021 Tour de France time trial . at 31km (stage20).. and Jonas took a little under ½ minute to Pogacar and managed a rank3 in that ITT 31km stage20, where Pogacar managed rank8.. who likely also played it safe and calculated to Jonas..
Jonas landing a P3 on the final 31Km in TDF2021 stage20 from a P2 placing.. speaks volumes about his time trial ability...
I don't see much difference between them in TT.

Tour de France 2021 Stage 20 (ITT) results

Wout van Aert is the winner of Tour de France 2021 Stage 20 (ITT), before Kasper Asgreen and Jonas Vingegaard. Tadej PogaÄar was leader in GC.

www.procyclingstats.com

Vingegård is a great TTer for his weight but I don't think that last year's stage 20 TT is a very good reference point, sure Vingegård did beat Pogačar but he took the corners carefully due to having the Tour already in the bag while Vingegård had to concern himself with Carapaz for second place. Plus that TT also came after 2 weeks in the yellow jersey for Pogačar which means less rest everyday. This year it will likely be Vingegård arriving to that TT with more than one week in yellow so he will not be as rested as last year. That's why I think a better reference point is the 1st TT oc last year's Tour where Pogačar put 27 seconds in Vingegård so a second per km even while doing the TT in the white jersey so for the last TT, I expect a similar kind of difference so around 40-45 seconds but if Vingegård has a bad day this difference will be bigger as Roglič showed in 2020.

Still Pogačar needs to recover significant tine before the TT and that's where his biggest challenge lies I am afraid

 

[Mayomaniac]

Wainting for a French rider to say "I'm a royalist, I don't care about this holiday" as an excuse for not making the breakaway today.

Ciccone really imploded, at the start of the Alpe he looked in control and strong, until he suddenly wasn't.

 

[ppanther92]

You're welcome to say which of the rides on spots 1-17 you think were unjuiced

I think his point is rather that this also holds for nowadays riders. But thats for The Clinic to discuss.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

The numbers say otherwise. This Thomas appears to be stronger than Tour winner Thomas and this Thomas only finished with the gruesome twosome because they kept stopping every time they dropped him because neither of them care about whether he’s there or not.

I love fact-based arguments as much as anyone, but...do you really believe the numbers on this one? Do you really think GT is better now at age 36 after 2 years of injuries and poor form and 4 years after he won the Tour as a late bloomer? And do you really think Enric Mas is a better climber than Quintana, Froome, Contador, Nibali, etc.?

 

[ppanther92]

Wow. For Thomas that is quicker time than when he won on the Alpe in 2018 (>40mins?). He’s in great shape for an old dude. Great ride by him to stick with the big two.

I have actually not considered that angle so far. True. Quite remarkable actually. Vingegaard and Pogacar are just that good.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Wainting for a French rider to say "I'm a royalist, I don't care about this holiday" as an excuse for not making the breakaway today.

Ciccone really imploded, at the start of the Alpe he looked in control and strong, until he suddenly wasn't.

Ciccone still did better than during his last attempt, where he died as soon as the road went uphill. If he's improving, he could still win a stage here.

 

[Sciatic]

Wainting for a French rider to say "I'm a royalist, I don't care about this holiday" as an excuse for not making the breakaway today.

Ciccone really imploded, at the start of the Alpe he looked in control and strong, until he suddenly wasn't.

Funny. I’m sure any who hail from the Vendee could claim that!

 

[Moondance]

I would not be at all surprised if Dawg hung it up after this year.

Given that he is on a €5,5m per season contract (reportedly) i would be very surprised to see him retire

 

[Cookster15]

I love fact-based arguments as much as anyone, but...do you really believe the numbers on this one? Do you really think GT is better now at age 36 after 2 years of injuries and poor form and 4 years after he won the Tour as a late bloomer? And do you really think Enric Mas is a better climber than Quintana, Froome, Contador, Nibali, etc.?

There are variables like wind and tactics but the raw indisputable fact is Thomas was quicker up the Alpe today than 2018.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

He's over 7 minutes down so probably not a GC hopeful. But he's got a lot more respect in the peloton now. I expect we'll see him win or get very close to winning another stage in the Pyrenees.

He's 8th in GC, even before today he was still 11th. Imho he should try and go for GC until the moment it makes no more sense. If he wants to become a GC rider, he could learn a lot. If he hangs on to a top 10 spot, it would be a very good result and something to build on. If he gets dropped 2 or 3 more times, it might also tell him something.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Given that he is on a €5,5m per season contract (reportedly) i would be very surprised to see him retire

He only has a contract for this season though, so unless he's willing to ride for a lot less, that won't be a deciding factor.

 

[inri2000]

Given that he is on a €5,5m per season contract (reportedly) i would be very surprised to see him retire

According to this his 5 year contract beginning in 2021 was (said to be) worth €15 million. Either way they made a huge investment considering his age.

Israel Start-Up Nation confirm signing of Chris Froome on long-term deal

Israel Start-Up Nation have finalised the signing of Chris Froome on a long-term deal said to be worth €15 million.

www.cyclist.co.uk

 

[Pinot's goat]

I love fact-based arguments as much as anyone, but...do you really believe the numbers on this one? Do you really think GT is better now at age 36 after 2 years of injuries and poor form and 4 years after he won the Tour as a late bloomer?

Poor form?

1st Suisse 2022
3rd Dauphine 2021
1st Romandie 2021
3rd Catalunya 2021
2nd Tirreno 2020

That is not poor form.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I love fact-based arguments as much as anyone, but...do you really believe the numbers on this one? Do you really think GT is better now at age 36 after 2 years of injuries and poor form and 4 years after he won the Tour as a late bloomer? And do you really think Enric Mas is a better climber than Quintana, Froome, Contador, Nibali, etc.?

I think Thomas is objectively climbing better now than he did four years ago, but whether he can hold that together for a GT better than four years ago is unclear. I think objectively Mas just climbed the Alpe faster than Quintana, Froome or Contador ever did, but that in itself isnt anything like enough evidence to declare him a better climber than those guys, we are after all talking about one climb and he lost 8 or 9 minutes yesterday.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

There are variables like wind and tactics but the raw indisputable fact is Thomas was quicker up the Alpe today than 2018.

Right, hence my comment.

Poor form?

1st Suisse 2022
3rd Dauphine 2021
1st Romandie 2021
3rd Catalunya 2021
2nd Tirreno 2020

That is not poor form.

As GT would say, fair play. I guess I haven't paid enough attention. Or Roglic and Pogacar have been dominant and his luck in GTs so bad that I just lost sight of him.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

I think Thomas is objectively climbing better now than he did four years ago, but whether he can hold that together for a GT better than four years ago is unclear. I think objectively Mas just climbed the Alpe faster than Quintana, Froome or Contador ever did, but that in itself isnt anything like enough evidence to declare him a better climber than those guys, we are after all talking about one climb and he lost 8 or 9 minutes yesterday.

Fair enough.

 

[Moondance]

He only has a contract for this season though, so unless he's willing to ride for a lot less, that won't be a deciding factor.

i thought it was a lot longer than two years (i dunno all i remember from when it was announced was that it was long)... But if he is - hallelujah. IPT can invest that money in riders more deserving of it in 2023

 

[search]

He only has a contract for this season though, so unless he's willing to ride for a lot less, that won't be a deciding factor.

According to this his 5 year contract beginning in 2021 was (said to be) worth €15 million. Either way they made a huge investment considering his age.

Israel Start-Up Nation confirm signing of Chris Froome on long-term deal

Israel Start-Up Nation have finalised the signing of Chris Froome on a long-term deal said to be worth €15 million.

www.cyclist.co.uk

yeah, he is signed till 2025. He also said so himself on Instagram

 

[Eclipse]

G is obviously riding very well, but I don't see much reason to believe he is actually climbing better than ever. His Alpe time in 2018 was just a case of riding a pretty controlled pace in the leaders jersey and he had loads in the tank for the finale.

 

[rehy90]

I think the only chance for Pog is the rain in the Pyrenees.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

yeah, he is signed till 2025. He also said so himself on Instagram

Yeah, that was a mistake on my part. There was also rumours of IPT trying to re-negotiate or force him to retire earlier this year.

 

[red_flanders]

if Mas finished alongside Ving and Pogi , it wasnt much of test then .

Not that simple, people have good days and bad. The group's time up the Alpe was quite fast today, historically. I think the late attack by Pogi was inevitable, they knew it, and they responded well. If he'd have shown any weakness earlier they'd have attacked. I didn't see any.

 

[RobertCrawley]

According to this his 5 year contract beginning in 2021 was (said to be) worth €15 million. Either way they made a huge investment considering his age.

Israel Start-Up Nation confirm signing of Chris Froome on long-term deal

Israel Start-Up Nation have finalised the signing of Chris Froome on a long-term deal said to be worth €15 million.

www.cyclist.co.uk

I say I would not be surprised if he retired because he's a 4-time Tour champion with a lot of pride. He's proven he can have great days on the bike after his horrendous crash, but I can't imagine him continuing to pedal if he doesn't realistically have chances to win GTs. Would he really stick around to win a spring classic or be a domestique, even for the money?

 

[madthebad]

Vingegård is a great TTer for his weight but I don't think that last year's stage 20 TT is a very good reference point, sure Vingegård did beat Pogačar but he took the corners carefully due to having the Tour already in the bag while Vingegård had to concern himself with Carapaz for second place. Plus that TT also came after 2 weeks in the yellow jersey for Pogačar which means less rest everyday. This year it will likely be Vingegård arriving to that TT with more than one week in yellow so he will not be as rested as last year. That's why I think a better reference point is the 1st TT oc last year's Tour where Pogačar put 27 seconds in Vingegård so a second per km even while doing the TT in the white jersey so for the last TT, I expect a similar kind of difference so around 40-45 seconds but if Vingegård has a bad day this difference will be bigger as Roglič showed in 2020.

Still Pogačar needs to recover significant tine before the TT and that's where his biggest challenge lies I am afraid

I wouldnt say so cause Vingegard was not riding for the GC at the time of last year's Tour 1st ITT .

 

[RobertCrawley]

I say I would not be surprised if he retired because he's a 4-time Tour champion with a lot of pride. He's proven he can have great days on the bike after his horrendous crash, but I can't imagine him continuing to pedal if he doesn't realistically have chances to win GTs. Would he really stick around to win a spring classic or be a domestique, even for the money?

I see Search's post above quoting Froome's Twitter feed. It looks like I'm completely wrong. Froome appears to be intending to stick it out to 2025.