Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 14: Annemasse - Morzine, 151.8k

[saunaking]

Yet another pointless descent finish. What's the point?

This post is confusing. What’s your username again???

 

[D. Pecher]

I think it was merckx who got punched in the kidneys so hard he had to abandon.

 

[saunaking]

What we’re all talking about, the KoM sprint and your middle paragraph. Pog didn’t look like he was expecting Vinge to attack at all, which is his own fault. But Pog immediately closed it down despite being taken by surprise and then put a dig after they passed the point.

He put in that dig cuz he was mad. Mad maybe at himself for messing up the bonus seconds. Wasted energy.

 

[saunaking]

I have no idea why he thought Vinge wouldn’t try and take time on him but he was still surprised by it. Leading up to the jump it had looked like they were fine to ride together because of the motos, which is ludicrous when the race is between seconds for them. Maybe Pog forgot about the seconds in his frustration and tiredness. The point being argued is Pog would have won the bonus seconds like he’s done everytime in the past. Not that he’d drop Vinge.

(I’ve never said that to be fair.)

Bike races are about more than strength though.

 

[D. Pecher]

He put in that dig cuz he was mad. Mad maybe at himself for messing up the bonus seconds. Wasted energy.

To be fair, from all we've seen so far in this tour, his attack at 500m would have bagged him the KOM sprint, so effectively the Motos messed it up for him. After that he was probably just too annoyed and lost focus enough for Vingegaard to take him by surprise at 100m.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Yeah, no Frenchman has the balls to try and punch Hinault. And for good reason.
Remember he manhandled that spectator or something who ran on stage during some ceremony while he was working as some kind of tour ambassador?

Remember when he punched a spectator.

 

[saunaking]

If we go by how the dynamics had been between them (see Puy de Dome, Grand Coloumbiere) 500m was the perfect mark for pogacar to attack. So far he always used his better explosivity to open a small gap that holds of half a kilometre or a bit longer, only then Vingegaard claws back a bit, so had he not been blocked by the Motos he would most likely have taken it. Apparently the ASO thought the same as the banned both moto crews for tomorrow's stage.

So then it’s Ted’s fault for attacking with 3k to go?
I agree

 

[Skalman]

To be fair, from all we've seen so far in this tour, his attack at 500m would have bagged him the KOM sprint, so effectively the Motos messed it up for him. After that he was probably just too annoyed and lost focus enough for Vingegaard to take him by surprise at 100m.

Not only that but it left him in a worse position, after he sprinted past Vinge and then had stop he was now in front of Vinge who of course wouldn't give up his advantage. it seemed to me that after he braked and found himself in front he realized that he had made a mistake and got completely confounded and didn't know what to do, or he realized ha was on his limit and hoped he could lead Vinge until the last meters before sprinting

 

[saunaking]

To be fair, from all we've seen so far in this tour, his attack at 500m would have bagged him the KOM sprint, so effectively the Motos messed it up for him. After that he was probably just too annoyed and lost focus enough for Vingegaard to take him by surprise at 100m.

Yes I agree. As much as motos are at fault for blocking, he made a big miscalculation attacking from so far. Seriously, did he think he was going to take 30’ or something??

 

[saunaking]

Remember when he punched a spectator.

Nope. But I think I saw highlights. Maybe at a protest of some kind? I’m a Lance era fan

 

[SHAD0W93]

Nope. But I think I saw highlights. Maybe at a protest of some kind? I’m a Lance era fan

All I and the man on the receiving end remember is the right haymaker.

Redirect Notice

 

[saunaking]

Incredible. Todays peloton would be thanking them for making the stage easier

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

All I and the man on the receiving end remember is the right haymaker.

Redirect Notice

There has never been a better photo of a man, displaying his gestalt than that picture. It is who he is.

 

[houtdffan]

Vingegaard made a mistake today when he caught back up to Pog. He should have kept riding. Think Pog was on his very limit and could have been dropped in a few hundred meters

 

[SHAD0W93]

Vingegaard made a mistake today when he caught back up to Pog. He should have kept riding. Think Pog was on his very limit and could have been dropped in a few hundred meters

I think they were both exhausted and didn’t know how much the other had left. All Vinge saw was Pog slowing some the pace for him to catch back up, for all he knew he could put in a dig and get countered. His 100 m sprint looked like all he had. I’m sure if he was feeling better he would have attacked as soon as he got up to Pog.

 

[houtdffan]

I think they were both exhausted and didn’t know how much the other had left. All Vinge saw was Pog slowing some the pace for him to catch back up, for all he knew he could put in a dig and get countered. His 100 m sprint looked like all he had. I’m sure if he was feeling better he would have attacked as soon as he got up to Pog.

I don't think Vingegaard needed to attack. Simply keep going his pace. Do the climb like Remco. Think he would have ridden Pog off his wheel. Pog looked to be about to go kablammo

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

Not the most important summit sprint today.

You're aware though that Vingegaard jumped Pogacar who looked like he didn't expect a sprint for some reason. Like he's even in the wrong gear. It was a clever move, you can count that as a win in a sprint if you like, but it adds nothing to your point.

 

[Pippo_San]

There was a moment when Pog took that bidon and used it to cool himself, just before Vingo reeled him back...in that moment I thought Pog was totally in the red zone. So it seemed perfect from a tactical standpoint what he did which is to do a full stop and then trash the Dane away in the last km.
What I don't really get (ok the moto gate and everything) is why he didn't choose to go sooner. Why wait so much to sprint for the gpm? Was he so much in the red? If he just choose to go with, say, 1km or a little least he could've opened a really interesting margin...

 

[Oldermanish]

You're aware though that Vingegaard jumped Pogacar who looked like he didn't expect a sprint for some reason. Like he's even in the wrong gear. It was a clever move, you can count that as a win in a sprint if you like, but it adds nothing to your point.

He won the most bonus seconds and that was the critical sprint. Creating excuse scenarios for Tadej and a characterization like "clever" to denigrate Jonas' effort is all in fans' imagination. Nitpick the outcome as you will because it won't matter after tomorrow.
One of these guys will crack and lose time. I like Pogacar but he's used alot of energy making moves to this point. After a rest day he'll be back to full power but there are alot of opportunities for crazy racing as almost none of these hills in Stage 15 are super decisive. The transitions, however, offer many out-of-sight curves and topography that can gap a group. It'll be fun.

 

[Oldermanish]

There was a moment when Pog took that bidon and used it to cool himself, just before Vingo reeled him back...in that moment I thought Pog was totally in the red zone. So it seemed perfect from a tactical standpoint what he did which is to do a full stop and then trash the Dane away in the last km.
What I don't really get (ok the moto gate and everything) is why he didn't choose to go sooner. Why wait so much to sprint for the gpm? Was he so much in the red? If he just choose to go with, say, 1km or a little least he could've opened a really interesting margin...

Honestly, he looked a bit pale like he'd been affected by the heat. You can fake expressions but that pallor and the look in his eyes was real. He recovered after but getting overheated is as bad as any bonk.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

He won the most bonus seconds and that was the critical sprint. Creating excuse scenarios for Tadej and a characterization like "clever" to denigrate Jonas' effort is all in fans' imagination. Nitpick the outcome as you will because it won't matter after tomorrow.

You are missing my point entirely. There is no excuse for Pogacar to loose there. But the reason that he's loosing the sprint is that there is no actual sprint, because before that, Vingegaard waits for Pogacar to look the wrong way and then jumps him close, I think not even 200m, to the line. Once Pogacar actually starts sprinting you can clearly see who the fast guy is. - Vingegaar took these bonus seconds and KOM points the only way he could from Pogacar, that is why I called it clever.

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

My only objection pre-stage was that it was really a too short stage for Vingegaard to do maximum damage.
Today and tomorrow should've been switched (in addition Stage 15 should've been no less than 230k, but those days are gone for Le Tour mountain stages, due to dark history), since alot of matches (or rather matchboxes to count them all) have been burned today, so don't expect same kind of powershow from the gun tomorrow - which I pre this stage would say would've benefitted Pogi.

But after today I'm not 100% sure that a 1996 262k 7 mountain + 100K TTT in 45°C would do him a favour.
Pogi have learned and been building enormous on his apparent weaknesses.

*edit* Col de Loze stage is a mere 166k btw...

I don't buy into the theory that long stages are bad for Pogacar. I think it's more likely that the opposite is true. Both stages Pogacar lost significant amount of time to Vingegaard last year were actually short. So these stages imo are not a very good indicator if he suffers from long grueling stages generally. Also if we compare victories Pogacar has 9 200km+ victories, whereas Vingegaard has 0.
JV have made the race really hard for everybody on two occasions to distance Pogacar, and once it completly backfired and the other time VIngegaard didn't even attack once.
Given that Pogacar usually excells at longer distances I don't see why that would not be the case in a Tour stage as well. You could argue that maybe Vingegaards recovery is better, but that would maybe only even it out somewhat.

 

[Unchained]

A few big names popped.. Pidcock being one,but most are still racing. The CN feature that includes photos of people who have quit is good, Caleb dropping out, and with all the pressure off Chavez dropping out was a disappointment for me, felt like he had a good day or two left. There is also a video floating around of Rodriguez, today's winner doing a front flip near buses and he has his pride hurt.. I think stage 5,6 after the race. Just does a perfect endo

 

[wirral]

In the "old days", a cycling fan punched Hinault in the liver on a climb, so he lost the Tour

That was Merckx not Hinault.

 

[Miha81]

There was a moment when Pog took that bidon and used it to cool himself, just before Vingo reeled him back...in that moment I thought Pog was totally in the red zone. So it seemed perfect from a tactical standpoint what he did which is to do a full stop and then trash the Dane away in the last km.
What I don't really get (ok the moto gate and everything) is why he didn't choose to go sooner. Why wait so much to sprint for the gpm? Was he so much in the red? If he just choose to go with, say, 1km or a little least he could've opened a really interesting margin...

He probably knew that he can not gap Vinge enough to stick for the descent and simply went for bonus seconds.