Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 17: Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc - Courchevel, 165.7k

[Cookster15]

Can you explain the gaps in the last couple of tours either? They were in the same sort of range, except this time 3rd is Adam Yates instead of previous GT winners Carapaz and Thomas.

It’s not over yet. Two stages back the gap was 10 seconds.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Can you explain the gaps in the last couple of tours either? They were in the same sort of range, except this time 3rd is Adam Yates instead of previous GT winners Carapaz and Thomas.

Carapaz and Geraint were 7 mins back, not almost 11 and there’s still stages to go and one more at minimum Vinge can gain more time. Even crazier is the riders finished within one hour of the winner looking back over the last 10 editions; 2013 29th, 2014 22nd, 2015 16th, 2016 25th, 2017 24th, 2018 25th, 2019 22nd, 2020 16th, 2021 19th, 2022 15th, and currently it’s 16th.

The gap has been getting bigger towards the rest of the top 10 and the field.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

It’s not over yet. Two stages back the gap was 10 seconds.

Ok but you were talking about the gaps to everyone else.

 

[Pirazziattacks]

Carapaz and Geraint were 7 mins back, not almost 11 and there’s still stages to go and one more at minimum Vinge can gain more time. Even crazier is the riders finished within one hour of the winner looking back over the last 10 editions; 2013 29th, 2014 22nd, 2015 16th, 2016 25th, 2017 24th, 2018 25th, 2019 22nd, 2020 16th, 2021 19th, 2022 15th, and currently it’s 16th.

The gap has been getting bigger towards the rest of the top 10 and the field.

The gaps are trending out, I'm not trying to argue with that. I just said this year is in a similar range to the last two Tours.

I also wouldn't put Adam Yates, who still came in as a domestique/secondary GC rider even if he is climbing better than he ever has in a GT, in the same category as Carapaz and Thomas.

 

[SHAD0W93]

The gaps are trending out, I'm not trying to argue with that. I just said this year is in a similar range to the last two Tours.

I also wouldn't put Adam Yates, who still came in as a domestique/secondary GC rider even if he is climbing better than he ever has in a GT, in the same category as Carapaz and Thomas.

Then who would you say is in the same category to Thomas and Carapaz? Simon or Hindley since they won a GT or no one?

 

[Martinstranger]

Pogi is not the new merckx 🤣.

This time might be different 😉

Historical there isn't much evidence about a former Tour-winner coming back after being beaten two years in a row. But perhaps - I hope that will be his aim and he goes all-in. He is still very young.

 

[RedheadDane]

Apparently Bilbao was given a warning for hitting a spectator yesterday. I hope it was basically a "We have to do it" warning, like:

"Pello... you know you're not supposed to hit the spectators, even if they're *** annoying. Just don't do it, okay?"

 

[tobydawq]

Apparently Bilbao was given a warning for hitting a spectator yesterday. I hope it was basically a "We have to do it" warning, like:

"Pello... you know you're not supposed to hit the spectators, even if they're *** annoying. Just don't do it, okay?"

Or they, unlike you, really don't think riders should be punching people.

 

[RedheadDane]

Or they, unlike you, really don't think riders should be punching people.

But they're not punishing the idiot spectators getting in the way. Of course it shouldn't be the "Go-to solution", but I can definitely understand if the riders get a little frustrated sometimes.
They could remove all spectators from the climbs, and the only difference would be a positive one.

 

[tobydawq]

But they're not punishing the idiot spectators getting in the way. Of course it shouldn't be the "Go-to solution", but I can definitely understand if the riders get a little frustrated sometimes.
They could remove all spectators from the climbs, and the only difference would be a positive one.

Sigh.

 

[RedheadDane]

Sigh.

What do idiots running alongside the riders on the climb add? Nothing. Definitely weren't missing them on Puy de Dôme.
I just don't think riders should be (seriously) punished for having an understandable reaction.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Eagle sound effects getting to obvious on the world feed

earlier they had cows mooing

Seriously, are we there yet?
Didn't expect serious broadcasters obey for the Netflix mooing brainfart bingers 😡

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

But they're not punishing the idiot spectators getting in the way. Of course it shouldn't be the "Go-to solution", but I can definitely understand if the riders get a little frustrated sometimes.
They could remove all spectators from the climbs, and the only difference would be a positive one.

I agree.

In amateur tennis, that is.

I've been cheering along the roads since late 70ies and a huge part of road cycling is the soul that comes with spectators standing so close that they can almost make their idols.

It is a very important soul in pro road cycling that should be always cherished IMO.

OK, during years first a photo generation has been introduced, then a mobile filming generation, and now a me-me-me-me selfie generation, with more and more severely challenged genes and who navigate as if they should have stayed in the pram.

It is possible that it requires even more "nanny rules" and more financial resources on that part from race organizers. But so be it, racer than soulless spectators empty races.

I will never be in favor of more Pûy-de-Dome cases without spectators. Not only here on the CN Forum but also elsewhere has the volcano been talked down on that basis, so it has been left with an almost pancake-flat legacy, where the condescending talk makes the volcano an indifferent 'meh mountain' for the millenials and alpha generations
(and I'm not saying they should've filled the Dôme with spectators, I would rather that they had bypassed this for cycling sacred place, it was not until a few days before the stage that I became aware that they had reintroduced the funiculaire/railway, leaving almost no place).

Until a time not long ago spectator could figure it out, even if a mountain was completely packed. One of my best memories is 1992 Sestriere, Chiapucci completely sourrounded by fellow countrymen, while putting King Miguel under max pressure, hanging a few minutes further down as second rider on final mountain.
I want more of those mesmerizing days. Not any more 'meh' along only a few real sheeps around the riders.

 

[tobydawq]

What do idiots running alongside the riders on the climb add? Nothing. Definitely weren't missing them on Puy de Dôme.
I just don't think riders should be (seriously) punished for having an understandable reaction.

Oh my God.

Having the Tour visiting Denmark and being able to get around seeing the race for three days was an amazing experience. So was following the week in France five years ago. So was having the Giro visiting Denmark 11 years ago. I'm sorry to be such an idiot as wanting to be there.

I know you would never personally stand on the roadside but it is an extremely integral part of cycling that it's accessible to the public, and you must be one of a very few people who didn't like seeing the return of the public in the World's in Leuven after 18 months of empty roads.

The fact that a few drunkards get carried away and run with the riders a little bit really shouldn't exclude the rest of the public from being allowed to attend bike races.

And violence shouldn't be condoned.

 

[Ulle97]

This time might be different 😉

Historical there isn't much evidence about a former Tour-winner coming back after being beaten two years in a row. But perhaps - I hope that will be his aim and he goes all-in. He is still very young.

Fignon came seriously close.
Won the Tour in 83, 84.

Almost came back 5 years later in 89 only to be pipped by 8 secs.

 

[RedheadDane]

It is a very important soul in pro road cycling that should be always cherished IMO.

"Soul"? To constantly be screaming at idiots to get out of the way? The riders are the soul, not some drunk idiots thinking the whole purpose of the race is them getting on television.
Sure, have spectators on the locations where it's easy for them to move out of the way when the riders arrive, but on some climbs that just isn't possible.

You were watching the race on Puy de Dôme, Woods catching and passing Jorgenson, Pogacar slowly pulling away from Vingegaard, while thinking that what was missing was some idiots getting in the way?

I know you would never personally stand on the roadside but it is an extremely integral part of cycling that it's accessible to the public, and you must be one of a very few people who didn't like seeing the return of the public in the World's in Leuven after 18 months of empty roads.

I was at both the Giro, and the Tour. On locations with plenty of room, and not running alongside the riders like some idiot.
Spectators are great, in places where they don't get in the way of the riders.

Of course, this is the absolute best way of dealing with idiots:

Seems like a good rule-of-thumb; "If you're close enough that a rider can steal your sunglasses, you're too close!"

Another great way to deal with idiots might be to publically shame them. Post their pictures on multiple SoMe platforms with captions like "Don't be this idiot!"

 

[tobydawq]

"Soul"? To constantly be screaming at idiots to get out of the way? The riders are the soul, not some drunk idiots thinking the whole purpose of the race is them getting on television.
Sure, have spectators on the locations where it's easy for them to move out of the way when the riders arrive, but on some climbs that just isn't possible.

You were watching the race on Puy de Dôme, Woods catching and passing Jorgenson, Pogacar slowly pulling away from Vingegaard, while thinking that what was missing was some idiots getting in the way?



I was at both the Giro, and the Tour. On locations with plenty of room, and not running alongside the riders like some idiot.
Spectators are great, in places where they don't get in the way of the riders.

Of course, this is the absolute best way of dealing with idiots:

Seems like a good rule-of-thumb; "If you're close enough that a rider can steal your sunglasses, you're too close!"

Do you know any other words than 'idiot'?

And what had that guy done to get his glasses taken?

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Fignon came seriously close.
Won the Tour in 83, 84.

Almost came back 5 years later in 89 only to be pipped by 8 secs.

Don't mention the F-name, this will break my heart once again.

He was with distance my #1 idol back then. And after his 2nd Tour win I really believed he would surpass Hinault. But we who cheered for him had to go through so much suffering instead that I have no doubt that this is the main reason why I have since become more laid back for those I cheer for nowadays. It just gets too intense and breaks my heart completely.

 

[RedheadDane]

Do you know any other words than 'idiot'?

I tend to use the same word for the same thing. The people running alongside the riders are idiots.
"Spectator" could also work. Definitely not "fan".

 

[jsem94]

I tend to use the same word for the same thing. The people running alongside the riders are idiots.
"Spectator" could also work. Definitely not "fan".

Fan is short for fanatic, which in a sense is what they are. Or not really, since it's usually about them seeking all the attention.

 

[RedheadDane]

Fan is short for fanatic, which in a sense is what they are. Or not really, since it's usually about them seeking all the attention.

I'm a bit fanatical too. That's why I get so annoyed by the riders running alongside the riders.

 

[D. Pecher]

Having the Tour visiting Denmark and being able to get around seeing the race for three days was an amazing experience. So was following the week in France five years ago. So was having the Giro visiting Denmark 11 years ago. I'm sorry to be such an idiot as wanting to be there.

Last time I checked, Denmark wasn't exactly full of Hors Cat climbs and that means the spectators stand on the side of the road not on it. That means there is little danger of a drunktard hitting handle bars and that crashing riders, or idiots running along with their hairy erses hanging out their pants. Neither is there a danger of motos getting boxed in and thuis blocking attacks.

Nobody wants to ban spectators per se, but it shouldn't be too much to ask for that spectators stay off the road even on climbs.

 

[RedheadDane]

And what had that guy done to get his glasses taken?

Being way too far onto the road.

 

[tobydawq]

Being way too far onto the road.

Lol. Good job then. There are a lot of glasses to pick then. Your rule of thumb from before is ridiculous, by the way. Because if people stand at the side of the road and the riders use the whole width of the road, the wide-most riders will still be near enough to the spectators to snatch their glasses.

I suppose riders concentrate on what they're supposed to do and then, if they are actually impeded, I get they can be frustrated. Poels' action seems really unnecessary unless that guy had been running in front of the group for 100 metres before and been annoying.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

"Soul"? To constantly be screaming at idiots to get out of the way? The riders are the soul, not some drunk idiots thinking the whole purpose of the race is them getting on television.
Sure, have spectators on the locations where it's easy for them to move out of the way when the riders arrive, but on some climbs that just isn't possible.

You were watching the race on Puy de Dôme, Woods catching and passing Jorgenson, Pogacar slowly pulling away from Vingegaard, while thinking that what was missing was some idiots getting in the way?



I was at both the Giro, and the Tour. On locations with plenty of room, and not running alongside the riders like some idiot.
Spectators are great, in places where they don't get in the way of the riders.

Of course, this is the absolute best way of dealing with idiots:

Seems like a good rule-of-thumb; "If you're close enough that a rider can steal your sunglasses, you're too close!"

Another great way to deal with idiots might be to publically shame them. Post their pictures on multiple SoMe platforms with captions like "Don't be this idiot!"

As I stated, due to seemingly linear degenatation of spectators' behavior last couple of decades it surely requires more nanny rules, fenches and everything - of which requires more economical means by the organizers (apart from apparently necessary nanny rules for accompanying MC bikes - it doesn't really seem to work with post race punishments).

But just continue with your suggestion turning pro road cycling into a 'quiet please' tennis sport. We are different on that point, maybe it's down to you don't cheer out on the roads at same extent as me. My general impression is that most of the crowd can still figure it out, but the few morons are an increasing number.

Now I mentioned 1992 Sestrieres.
Now what comes clear to my mind is comparing 1997 l'Aple d'Huez with 2001 edition. Standing at last hairpin pot / large bowel before steep ramp up to the village and 2K mark on both occasions, able to watch crowds and riders down the mountain from 5K mark up to past 2K mark.
1997 was explosive crowd-wise, especially remember Virenque coming up 3rd before the hairpin in front of the bowel crowd. Watching frenchmen going berzerk down at the roads, like one living larva who from all joints screamed "vi-renque! vi-renque! vi-renque!" is amongst the most intense experiences I've had being alon the roads.
2001 an even larger crowd of spectators was reported, but at that time railings had been erected all the way down to where the road splits, i.e. between 4K and 3K, and the experience from my same spot was litterarily not the same, something was definitely missing.
This 'thanks' to the 1999 Guerini incident.

I acknowledge your defence for the riders, but something has to be done in a different way.

It's not a 'quiet please' tennis sport.