Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 17: Saint-Gervais Mont Blanc - Courchevel, 165.7k

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Another great way to deal with idiots might be to publically shame them. Post their pictures on multiple SoMe platforms with captions like "Don't be this idiot!"

I'm with you all the way here! Is that victim shaming? No. The riders are victims.

Fortunately, there has been so much focus on completely selfish clowns this year that I believe and hope that it will get better.
Otherwise, those who still remain must be put back in their prams.

 

[tobydawq]

I saw a nice thread on Twitter from a French guy who had been standing at the point where the motos came to a halt yesterday on the Col de La Loze. He said that throughout the day, cyclotourists as well as vehicles from the caravan had continually come to a halt in that bend because it was there that the road ramped up to 24% and that wasn't visible due to the tightness of the turn. He said that it had nothing with the spectators to do but simply the high gradients coupled with low speed. He also said that because there were so many spectators, they would help push the vehicles to get the engine running again, and his assessment was that it would have been even worse, if there had not been that many people (that's of course a very specific point about just that corner yesterday and not something general).

 

[RedheadDane]

But just continue with your suggestion turning pro road cycling into a 'quiet please' tennis sport. We are different on that point, maybe it's down to you don't cheer out on the roads at same extent as me. My general impression is that most of the crowd can still figure it out, but the few morons are an increasing number.

Fans should still be allowed. Unfortunately, there's no way to ensure that only fans, and not idiots, are on the side of the road. You're not a fan if you spend a whole day - or several days - on a mountain, getting drunk. And then, when the reason you're there arrives, so-to-speak, you turn your back in order to take a selfie/get on TV.

He also said that because there were so many spectators, they would help push the vehicles to get the engine running again, and his assessment was that it would have been even worse, if there had not been that many people (that's of course a very specific point about just that corner yesterday and not something general).

That was not the case with the Bilbao-incident.

Too bad it's probably not possible to have some sort of "Entrance Exam" to the climbs.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Fans should still be allowed. Unfortunately, there's no way to ensure that only fans, and not idiots, are on the side of the road. You're not a fan if you spend a whole day - or several days - on a mountain, getting drunk. And then, when the reason you're there arrives, so-to-speak, you turn your back in order to take a selfie/get on TV.

Not that I can't follow you on that point, but in previous decades drunk Dutch fans at l'Alpe d'Huez was not a problem at all, delivering a real party 24/7.
But when things got going and the race entered their spots they really knew the limits - and even when drunk had situational awareness when they could allow themselves to throw the beer mug over a compatriot further down the ranks who took it with a big laugh (now I sound like this is a thing I could do myself - it is not - I'm always sober and calm, however ofcourse cheering).

But it seems that something drastic has happened with the ability to find the delicate balance for a subgroup. Especially speaking the last 5-10 years it's got far worse IMO.
I just hope it's not an irreversible process and measures other than prohibiting cheering crowds will be successfull.

For me it is a shame if the few are really allowed to ruin it for the majority.

I don't know if it's because I've been there so many times out on the roads myself, but there's just something very special about densely packed roads where everyone knows how to balance on the right border of a delicate balance. This has been the case for many decades until recent years.

 

[D. Pecher]

I don't know if it's because I've been there so many times out on the roads myself, but there's just something very special about densely packed roads where everyone knows how to balance on the right border of a delicate balance. This has been the case for many decades until recent years.

That's a bit of a myth isn't it? Remember Guerini getting knocked over by an idiot on the way to Alpe d'Huez? The problem with drunktards staggering into the roads is not a recent one.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

That's a bit of a myth isn't it? Remember Guerini getting knocked over by an idiot on the way to Alpe d'Huez? The problem with drunktards staggering into the roads is not a recent one.

I was literally referring to the 1999 edition if you read my comments.
And if we should get into details about drinking, the clumsy amateur photographer hadn't even been drinking (and was also quick to run up to the Telekom bus to apologize immediately, not that it should be an excuse for thoughtlessness, it never can be).

*edit* If you're referring 'myth' as my experiences with drunk Dutch cycling fans anyhow being able to somewhat more measured behavior than today's me-me selfie outbursts, it's not taken out of nothing, but personal on location experiences on plenty occasions, so not ecactly plucked out of thin air, on the contrary.

Now it sounds like I'm generally defending drunk people, I'm far from that POV! But I've just experienced a slide in the last decade or maybe since the advent of smartphones which has resulted in a mixture of traditional 'real fans' with 'pesudo fans' of whom in reality sees themselves as the center of the world.

 

[RedheadDane]

Just a reminder, this is great crowd-behaviour:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543223128763076613

Notice how they're well out of the way, on the hill.

 

[bizzmane89]

Carapaz and Geraint were 7 mins back, not almost 11 and there’s still stages to go and one more at minimum Vinge can gain more time. Even crazier is the riders finished within one hour of the winner looking back over the last 10 editions; 2013 29th, 2014 22nd, 2015 16th, 2016 25th, 2017 24th, 2018 25th, 2019 22nd, 2020 16th, 2021 19th, 2022 15th, and currently it’s 16th.

The gap has been getting bigger towards the rest of the top 10 and the field.

Jumbo is riding the tour super aggressive and are a strong team. In every second stage commentators and the forum is like "why dont they let the break go", "ive never seen this ***", "what am i watching". The harder the tour the more stretched out the classement will be. It think thats the reason for this development

 

[Oldermanish]

Just a reminder, this is great crowd-behaviour:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543223128763076613

Notice how they're well out of the way, on the hill.

I can't imagine how overwhelming the impact of those fans on that climb section would be to a rider. They'd never forget it!

 

[tobydawq]

Just a reminder, this is great crowd-behaviour:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1543223128763076613

Notice how they're well out of the way, on the hill.

Oh, so you should build a hill now to be a good spectator (those on the hill obviously came too late, and there was no space more at the roadside).

 

[Netserk]

Please, it’s quite straightforward. Normally spectators should never stand on the road (where the riders ride), and on broad uphill roads like on Alpe when they do, they should leave enough space for at least two riders side-by-side. Never run on the road. Never have something stick out that gets in the way.

Common sense and very basic. Most spectators abide. But there simply isn’t the necessary punishment of norm violations. Anti-social parasites get to run wild, again and again.

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh, so you should build a hill now to be a good spectator (those on the hill obviously came too late, and there was no space more at the roadside).

Those on the hill got the best spots! Being able to see the riders approach from far away.
And the people at the roadside - not on the road - are standing still, not running next to riders like drunk chickens.

Never run on the road.

THIS!
If you look at the Bilbao-incident, it's clearly a case of some idiot (and "idiot" is the only way to describe him) running alongside Harper, completely oblivious to the fact that there are indeed other riders in the race.
And there's also the spectators' own safety to consider. Because, while I don't think riders should be (seriously) punished for punching idiots, I don't actually want people to be hurt. Just imagine if someone runs in front of the moto, and then trips...

 

[tobydawq]

Those on the hill got the best spots! Being able to see the riders approach from far away.
And the people at the roadside - not on the road - are standing still, not running next to riders like drunk chickens.



THIS!
If you look at the Bilbao-incident, it's clearly a case of some idiot (and "idiot" is the only way to describe him) running alongside Harper, completely oblivious to the fact that there are indeed other riders in the race.
And there's also the spectators' own safety to consider. Because, while I don't think riders should be (seriously) punished for punching idiots, I don't actually want people to be hurt. Just imagine if someone runs in front of the moto, and then trips...

I stood on a hill at the top of Høve Stræde where Magnus Cort secured the polkadot jersey. You couldn't see anything because you were so far away. So no, that's not the best spot at all.and no, of course you should not run on the road.

And oh, look, suddenly you don't wish the worst for the spectators anyway. Make up your mind.

 

[Netserk]

and no, of course you should not run on the road.

Yet it happens all the time. Do you just shrug at that, or do you think something can and should be done about that by others? If so, what?

 

[RedheadDane]

I stood on a hill at the top of Høve Stræde where Magnus Cort secured the polkadot jersey. You couldn't see anything because you were so far away. So no, that's not the best spot at all.and no, of course you should not run on the road.

And oh, look, suddenly you don't wish the worst for the spectators anyway. Make up your mind.

You couldn't see anything? You couldn't see that Cort crossed the KoM sprint first? I have a hard time believing that...

And thinking someone deserves getting punched for being an idiot isn't "wishing the worst" on them.

 

[tobydawq]

Yet it happens all the time. Do you just shrug at that, or do you think something can and should be done about that by others? If so, what?

I shrug at it.

 

[tobydawq]

You couldn't see anything? You couldn't see that Cort crossed the KoM sprint first? I have a hard time believing that...

And thinking someone deserves getting punched for being an idiot isn't "wishing the worst" on them.

I could see a short glimpse of something pink coming before a short glimpse of something yellow/white/blue. We couldn't see the sprint or his celebration afterwards. It was a terrible place to stand but we had just seen them in Høve a little hour before so that was why we were so badly positioned.

 

[RedheadDane]

I shrug at it.

Because you really don't think it's a problem, or because you think it's a lost cause anyway?

I could see a short glimpse of something pink coming before a short glimpse of something yellow/white/blue. We couldn't see the sprint or his celebration afterwards. It was a terrible place to stand but we had just seen them in Høve a little hour before so that was why we were so badly positioned.

Okay, that sucks. But my point still stands about the people on the hill in those pictures, they seem to have gotten a pretty nice spot. While some of the people alongside the road could only really see the riders as they came around that slight bend.

 

[tobydawq]

Because you really don't think it's a problem, or because you think it's a lost cause anyway?



Okay, that sucks. But my point still stands about the people on the hill in those pictures, they seem to have gotten a pretty nice spot. While some of the people alongside the road could only really see the riders as they came around that slight bend.

Because it's a lost cause.

 

[RedheadDane]

Because it's a lost cause.

Coz nothing is done to try and stop it!

 

[tobydawq]

Coz nothing is done to try and stop it!

Yes there is. Often (especially in the Vuelta) there are police officers standing at intervals who will intercept the runners.

But how often have we really seen a runner actually interfere more negatively than what happened with Bilbao the other day?

 

[RedheadDane]

But how often have we really seen a runner actually interfere more negatively than what happened with Bilbao the other day?

What happened with Bilbao was very bad. He was unable to ride unobstructed!

And it isn't a lost cause. Besides, organisers aren't helping their case by basically sending the signal that if a spectator runs along the riders, getting in the way, then the riders will be punished.

 

[tobydawq]

What happened with Bilbao was very bad. He was unable to ride unobstructed!

And it isn't a lost cause. Besides, organisers aren't helping their case by basically sending the signal that if a spectator runs along the riders, getting in the way, then the riders will be punished.

Oh, come on. If you can't imagine any worse outcome, I guess you should stop acting as if this is the biggest problem in cycling.

 

[RedheadDane]

Oh, come on. If you can't imagine any worse outcome, I guess you should stop acting as if this is the biggest problem in cycling.

Of course a rider crashing because of some idiot would be worse. And if idiots are allowed to run around unchecked, then it's only a matter of time...

But you just continue acting as if spectators are so important that some idiot behaviours should be allowed because "nothing can be done".

 

[tobydawq]

Of course a rider crashing because of some idiot would be worse. And if idiots are allowed to run around unchecked, then it's only a matter of time...

But you just continue acting as if spectators are so important that some idiot behaviours should be allowed because "nothing can be done".

Which is indeed my point.