Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 2: Vitoria-Gasteiz - Donostia/San Sebastián, 208.9k

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Um....the two staying away and Pogacar getting a time gap and the bonus seconds for one....

A time gap on the flat? He gets the bonus seconds anyway, so no change there. If they arrive with a big group the risk is actually bigger that he gets more than 4 bonus seconds on Jonas.

 

[DNP-Old]

Ergernis bij José De Cauwer: "Na alles wat Wout van Aert voor Jumbo-Visma betekend heeft..." | sporza

Niet alleen Wout van Aert heeft gevloekt na de tweede etappe in de Tour de France, ook in onze commentaarcabine kwam de stoom uit de oren. José De Cauwer stelde vast hoe Jumbo-Visma een sprint met de Belgische aas uit de handen liet glippen en stelt zich veel vragen bij de (beperkte) rol van...

sporza.be

You guys should put this page in a translator. It's the best thing you'll read all month, trust me.

 

[bNator]

Don’t forget that there is a big chance WvA will leave the tour halfway if his second baby comes early, and in that case, he won’t be of the same value as last year.
WvA has had a slow year in terms of wins (Ghent-Wevelgem didn’t help), so he is desperate for some wins in the prime years of his career.
He is one of Jumbo’s team leaders and paid as such; he is supposed to win and he is the main marketing subject for the jumbo shops in Belgium. Saying that the GC is more important is, imho, what cycling fans think is most important, but not necessarily what jumbo management thinks is most important: after all, they already won the tour (and giro and vuelta), but they eg never won the worlds, some classics,… and Wva would be as valuable, if not more, for jumbo, if he can win those.

Just no…

 

[ManicJack]

A time gap on the flat? He gets the bonus seconds anyway, so no change there. If they arrive with a big group the risk is actually bigger that he gets more than 4 bonus seconds on Jonas.

So there is absolutely no chance that Pogacar could have attacked Vingo on a flat road and even put a second into him? Gotcha.

 

[Didinho]

Ergernis bij José De Cauwer: "Na alles wat Wout van Aert voor Jumbo-Visma betekend heeft..." | sporza

Niet alleen Wout van Aert heeft gevloekt na de tweede etappe in de Tour de France, ook in onze commentaarcabine kwam de stoom uit de oren. José De Cauwer stelde vast hoe Jumbo-Visma een sprint met de Belgische aas uit de handen liet glippen en stelt zich veel vragen bij de (beperkte) rol van...

sporza.be

You guys should put this page in a translator. It's the best thing you'll read all month, trust me.

I’m still going hard to read all the fb comments etc. It’s another Roglic (Olympics) story, they all want Vingegaard to lose and Wout to quit or ride for himself.

 

[RobertCrawley]

EF being happy with his efforts does not prove that he is a smart and calculating rider.

Yes it does. He went for the stage win. He was the most combative rider. EF sponsors are happier.

Now that their GC hopeful has crashed out, Powless (who is nice) and team are making the most of what they have.

 

[VorstM]

Think Van Aert should have attacked himself. The guy has 2 helpers already and is still frustrated that he's not perfectly escorted to the finish in the final 15k when he's part of a group of 20 of the best riders in the world. At some point you have to do a thing or two yourself. Like Lafay did, as did Pidcock, Buchmann, Skjelmose, Bilbao... Guys who try to win the stage as well. Prime Sagan would laugh at this misplaced outburst after so much help from team mates.

 

[Jagartrott]

Think Van Aert should have attacked himself. The guy has 2 helpers already and is still frustrated that he's not perfectly escorted to the finish in the final 15k when he's part of a group of 20 of the best riders in the world. At some point you have to do a thing or two yourself. Like Lafay did, as did Pidcock, Buchmann, Skjelmose, Bilbao... Guys who try to win the stage as well. Prime Sagan would laugh at this misplaced outburst after so much help from team mates.

Have you actually seen the stage? Van Aert pulled for minutes to get Bilbao back, then also closed the gap to Pidcock. Maybe he could have tried to get away, but normally he's the fastest sprinter in this group so the tactic of keeping it together (especially with Jumbo being the dominant team in that bunch) was the most sensible one.

 

[ManicJack]

EF being happy with his efforts does not prove that he is a smart and calculating rider.

How do you know he wasn't simply following team orders?

 

[Ilmaestro99]

He is one of Jumbo’s team leaders and paid as such; he is supposed to win and he is the main marketing subject for the jumbo shops in Belgium

He is on the team to win monuments and has barely delivered. That's primarily what he signed to do. What's matters for Jumbo in this Tour is gc. He can be a Belgian jumbo star with wins in flanders, roubaix, sanremo, worlds. Now in July the world doesn't revolve around him. In Giro, Roglic wasn't doing sprint leadouts for Olaf Koj. It would be laughable.

 

[Gargamel35]

Wout is a perfect always second guy.
Vingegard looks completely lost out there.

JV is set to implode. On the other hand UAE guys were arguing each other all the time too.

 

[Salvarani]

Don’t forget that there is a big chance WvA will leave the tour halfway if his second baby comes early, and in that case, he won’t be of the same value as last year.
WvA has had a slow year in terms of wins (Ghent-Wevelgem didn’t help), so he is desperate for some wins in the prime years of his career.
He is one of Jumbo’s team leaders and paid as such; he is supposed to win and he is the main marketing subject for the jumbo shops in Belgium. Saying that the GC is more important is, imho, what cycling fans think is most important, but not necessarily what jumbo management thinks is most important: after all, they already won the tour (and giro and vuelta), but they eg never won the worlds, some classics,… and Wva would be as valuable, if not more, for jumbo, if he can win those.

No... winning the TdF with Vingegaard again should be the most important thing for anyone involved in and around the team.

WvA has probably been promised he has his own objectives that he can go for. A free role, with support. He has immense pressure on him from his own sponsors, not just his team, but Belgian fans and media. He got things going on in his personal life that he probably is the most concerned about or on his mind atm.

Two stages in and it is pretty much been a circus. A lot of focus and attention on him. It is causing friction and some distraction from the main goal.

I bet the other teams are hoping it continues over this first week. Jumbo need to get their affairs in order or get "lucky" that WvA delivers and wins one, so everyone can relax a bit.

 

[Salvarani]

Wout is a perfect always second guy.
Vingegard looks completely lost out there.

JV is set to implode. On the other hand UAE guys were arguing each other all the time too.

I guess this is why the TdF is different from any other race, with all that it entails.

 

[Boehmand]

Thinking about possible friction at Jumbo, I think Vingegaard would have preferred someone else that WvA selected, when he can leave the race at any minute if his wife goes into labour.

It may feel like the team is expending unneccesary strength getting a stage win for a guy, who isn't necessarily there to return the favour late in the race.

 

[frisenfruitig]

What other reason is there?

If he really wanted to give Wva a chance to win he could have done a single pull. I'm not even talking about emptying the tank or anything.

He didn't cooperate with Pogacar because he was afraid to get demolished and lose more than just some bonification seconds, wva didn't have anything to do with that decision.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ciccone looked a lot better today, really attentive and well positioned on the climb.
Bettiol rode a horrible final. Had good enough climbing legs to make it over the climb, but then he chills at the back of the group the whole time instead of moving up, doesn't attack (ok, he was one of the faster sprinters in the group) and starts his sprint pretty much all the way back in Bilbao because he was positioned so bad.

 

[Boehmand]

Have you actually seen the stage? Van Aert pulled for minutes to get Bilbao back, then also closed the gap to Pidcock. Maybe he could have tried to get away, but normally he's the fastest sprinter in this group so the tactic of keeping it together (especially with Jumbo being the dominant team in that bunch) was the most sensible one.

I think the optimum tactic would be for "whatever Jumbo guy" to sit on the wheel of whoever went away, and do nothing, like Vingegaard did himself when Pogacar went.

Other than Pogacar going away himself (then it had to be Vingegaard), either WvA, Kelderman og Benoot would have easily won a heads up sprint, with whoever had gone full gas pulling them along for 1-2 Ks.

Or attacked themselves, 1 after the other, while the other 3 just grabbed wheels.

But hindsight is always 20/20.

Maybe Jumbo got a little too locked into the idea that it HAD to be WvA to win, when they had superior numbers in the group and could have gone aggressive.

Maybe a sign Jumbo are great at planning out a stage, but less great at adapting to a situation fast.

 

[MartinGT]

Just watched the highlights. What was Pidcock trying to do with 3km to go?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

If he really wanted to give Wva a chance to win he could have done a single pull. I'm not even talking about emptying the tank or anything.

He didn't cooperate with Pogacar because he was afraid to get demolished and lose more than just some bonification seconds, wva didn't have anything to do with that decision.

He only said that it also helped Van Aert, but not that it was the main reason he didn't pull with Pogačar.

 

[Andre]

Wout is nonetheless in a good place. He has shown some fast sprint...is in the best spot for the green whether he likes it or not, and some sprint stages coming up where he can pick up another victory to add to his 9 already.

 

[armchairclimber]

Anyway. Lafay was good.

I can imagine him looking into this thread tonight, trying to find mentions of his moment, and finding instead a heap of knicker wetting about JV and ther woes.

A good rider out-smarted the rest, they under-estimated him (never again) and he had the guts and power to make it to the line. Fortune doesn't often favour the brave in the Tour, but it did today.

 

[Lequack]

Lafay will win this Tour. If not him then Egan Bernal.

 

[Boehmand]

Lafay will win this Tour.

- and then he'll snap his fingers, and half of us will cease to exist!

 

[Lequack]

- and then he'll snap his fingers, and half of us will cease to exist!

He's clearly the strongest. He was able to stay up with Pog and Vinge yesterday on the climbs, and was stronger than Wout in the sprint today. Maybe the ITT is his only weakness.

 

[Volderke]

Just no…

The Jumbo supermarkets are present in 2 countries in the world: the Netherlands, and since a couple of years, Belgium.

Wout van Aert is the main reason the brand name Jumbo is known in Belgium.