Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 2: Vitoria-Gasteiz - Donostia/San Sebastián, 208.9k

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Apr 14, 2021
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These are piddling stages and it was always known that Pogi had the sprint to easily win bonuses. All Jonas has to do is let Pogi tire himself out in the sprints and then hit him where it actually matters in the mountains and gain minutes.
Far from it - there seemed to have been a lot of doubt in Pog's ability to execute those sprint after his injury. And bookies prove that. Nothing changed (Pog is still better in sprints as he was last year) yet his odds improved substantially over the last few days.

As far as putting minutes is concerned - we'll see. All Pog has to do apparently is beat Quintana for a bit less than a minute, and there won't be any minutes anymore...

People thinking Jonas putting minutes into Pog on a decisive climb is going to be the new norm in the upcoming Tours would do well to remember he only put less than a minute to Quintana, 1:10 to Bardet, etc.
 
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Jul 7, 2013
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Last year he gained merely 8 seconds.

If Pogacar gets dropped for good like at Granon and finishes outside of top3 of the stage then obviously it could end up like that. But in this scenario those bonuses won't matter anyway. If Pogacar is able to hold Vinge's wheel or is dropped just once (and only by Vinge) then I'm confident those 30 seconds could happen. It's already at 11 seconds and there will be many more occasions.
 
Jul 18, 2020
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These are piddling stages and it was always known that Pogi had the sprint to easily win bonuses. All Jonas has to do is let Pogi tire himself out in the sprints and then hit him where it actually matters in the mountains and gain minutes.
This year things are looking better than last year. I don't understand the drama in jumbo visma.
Vingegaard went with 39 s of disadvantage to pogacar last year before granon. This year, he probably will go to the first real mountain stage, with less than 20 seconds.
 
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Apr 14, 2021
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This year things are looking better than last year. I don't understand the drama in jumbo visma.
Vingegaard went with 39 s of disadvantage to pogacar last year before granon. This year, he probably will go to the first real mountain stage, with less than 20 seconds.
Yes. And then he puts 3 minutes into Pog while 5 other guys put minutes into Pog as well and voila - job done...
 
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Apr 30, 2011
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If Pogacar gets dropped for good like at Granon and finishes outside of top3 of the stage then obviously it could end up like that. But in this scenario those bonuses won't matter anyway. If Pogacar is able to hold Vinge's wheel or is dropped just once (and only by Vinge) then I'm confident those 30 seconds could happen. It's already at 11 seconds and there will be many more occasions.
Had he finished 2nd on Granon, then his gain in bonus seconds would clearly have been 14 seconds. Still quite far from 30.
 
Jul 16, 2011
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I really hope now that Rodriguez or someone left field sneaks up an nicks this race, Not sure I'm ready for 2 weeks of Wout this, Vingo that, Pog the other. Be funny as hell if they become so obsessed with each other that someone else gets away on a stage and takes loads of time.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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Had he finished 2nd on Granon, then his gain in bonus seconds would clearly have been 14 seconds. Still quite far from 30.

Who says it has to be like last year? It's already at 11 seconds after 2 stages (vs hypotetical 14 seconds for the whole race in 2022) and Pog hasn't even won a stage yet. Vinge has no chance vs Pog at any kind of finish (or time bonus) unless he drops him. He will need to compensate for those bonuses by distancing Pog. If he does it multiply (like last year) then the bonuses will be reduced but they probably wouldn't matter.
 
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Jul 16, 2011
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I really hope now that Rodriguez or someone left field sneaks up an nicks this race, Not sure I'm ready for 2 weeks of Wout this, Vingo that, Pog the other. Be funny as hell if they become so obsessed with each other that someone else gets away on a stage and takes loads of time.
You're allowed to dream...:grinning:
 
Apr 30, 2011
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Who says it has to be like last year? It's already at 11 seconds after 2 stages (vs hypotetical 14 seconds for the whole race in 2022) and Pog hasn't even won a stage yet. Vinge has no chance vs Pog at any kind of finish unless he drops him. He will need to compensate for those bonuses by distancing Pog.
He nearly took the sprint on Jaizkibel and was close on PdBF last year. He has plenty of chance to beat him in a sprint on top of a mountain.
 
Jul 18, 2020
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Yes. And then he puts 3 minutes into Pog while 5 other guys put minutes into Pog as well and voila - job done...
I didn't said that the scenario you're talking about is gonna happen.
Personally, i believe Vingegaard will drop pogacar in the long climbs, but he is not gonna put 3 min on pogacar obviously.
 
Barely racing before the Tour? Can I have some of what you're smoking??

NrRaceClassDateCategory
23Critérium du Dauphiné2.UWT2023-06-11ME
22Critérium du Dauphiné | Stage 72.UWT2023-06-10ME
21Critérium du Dauphiné | Stage 52.UWT2023-06-08ME
20Itzulia Basque Country2.UWT2023-04-08ME
19Itzulia Basque Country | Stage 62.UWT2023-04-08ME
18Itzulia Basque Country | Stage 42.UWT2023-04-06ME
17Itzulia Basque Country | Stage 32.UWT2023-04-05ME
16O Gran Camiño2.12023-02-26ME
15O Gran Camiño | Stage 4 (ITT)2.12023-02-26ME
14O Gran Camiño | Stage 32.12023-02-25ME
13O Gran Camiño | Stage 22.12023-02-24ME
So you just prove my point? Or do you see preparation rides as the big sponsor deals? MSR alone is worth more than PN, Itzulia
 
Jul 7, 2013
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He nearly took the sprint on Jaizkibel and was close on PdBF last year. He has plenty of chance to beat him in a sprint on top of a mountain.

Nearly? You must be kidding, he lost by a bike length. On PDBF it was ridiculously steep (unusually for MTF), 20% or so (which favours pure w/kg so smaller guys) and still he didn't make it.
 
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Lol, have we watched the same season so far?

Van Aert has properly raced 5 days this spring.
yes.

Ving rides one race after the tour , and that wasn't even sure.. So my saying that he barely rides after the tour is atm pretty spot on.

He did some preparation races, really think the sponsors are in awe of that? those races aren't even on main national TV in belgium/Netherlands. (except PN).
 
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The talk was about sponsors.... sponsors are about people viewing it.
Sponsor in question is a dutch company.

And you don't think people in the Netherlands and Belgium might be able to find way to watch races outside of their national TV? Especially when their national TV has such a weird priority to not show one of the main TdF prep races.
 
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The talk was about sponsors.... sponsors are about people viewing it.
Sponsor in question is a dutch company.
So, WvA has won in 2023:
NrRaceClassDateCategory
41National Championships Belgium - ITTNC2023-06-22ME
40E3 Saxo Classic1.UWT2023-03-24ME

So, clearly winning the TdF should be top priority? Helping WvA win a stage before he abandons the race doesn't make any sense... at least not if you're not dutch or belgian.

Edit: Ofcourse the OTHER riders should help him - but Vingegaard got bigger fish to fry.
 
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Jul 15, 2021
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The fastest sprinter in a group, by far, is also the only one that has two team-mates leading him out. He still manages to lose. And his fans are crying he should have had a third rider as lead-out. The team leader nonetheless. At the second stage of the Tour.

This stuff is just priceless.
 
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The fastest sprinter in a group, by far, is also the only one that has two team-mates leading him out. He still manages to lose. And his fans are crying he should have had a third rider as lead-out. The team leader nonetheless. At the second stage of the Tour.

This stuff is just priceless.
People are coping, hard. They already see what is coming later.

Apparently, It's also much more important to be named Wout van Aert than to win Tour de France. Well, according to the sponsors.
 
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You guys should put this page in a translator. It's the best thing you'll read all month, trust me.
There ya go:

What to think of it? The silence of José De Cauwer speaks a thousand words. "Exciting", says commentator Renaat Schotte.

Renaat: "It was a beautiful finale, although anticlimactic from a Belgian perspective."

José: "It's sad for Wout van Aert. A missed opportunity. The strong team lost control of the race. He was quite disappointed at the finish. And with good reason. I think something went wrong at Jumbo-Visma. Van Aert had to close gaps and control the run-in to San Sebastian himself. Tonight that will probably be discussed. He had three teammates with him: Benoot, Kelderman and Vingegaard. The last one didn't take one single pull. Kelderman did his duty, Benoot as well. Then I got nervous, as I was missing Vingegaard. I have lots of respect for the winner of the Tour, but he should have played the role of team mate in this instance. It's not a case of being incapable, but a matter of being blind or unwilling. Maybe not unwilling, but he might not see what he should be doing.

Renaat: "I think he was unable to respond when Lafay launched his attack. It's the kind of finale of which he lacks experience. But he might have been able to contribute a bit earlier in the race."

José: "That's what he should have done! In the descent, with the attack of Bilbao, Van Aert responded. Okay, maybe Vingegaard is not that proficient in all these bends and curves. But when Bilbao was caught, the team had to say: ´we're here with our king Van Aert.´ Vingegaard didn't ride one meter in front. Especially when you think about everything that happened last year..."

Renaat: "Last year Vingegaard made a gesture in the time trial, he gave away the win to Van Aert."

José: "Let's put that on the scale together with everything that Van Aert has done. For Vingegaard. And what he done for the team. Yes, it's emotional. But with ´samen winnen´ [Jumbo's slogan, winning together] Wout gives away a certain victory in Gent-Wevelgem to Christophe Laporte. That was for the team. And this time Vingegaard should have done his part of the work. There are no excuses. Nobody can change my mind."

And then they go on for a bit more.
 
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Vingegaard got one role, and that is to stay out of accidents & follow Poagacar as close as possible until we get to the mountains, he knows that he can't outsprint Pogacar on a small hill or a flat surface as per se. ..
Jonas is the current champ.. that is what matters.. GC and stay out of trouble.

Little Vingegaard like sub 60kg, - is not a lead-out dude for Sprintfinish to get some stage-wins for Vista.. other Jumbo riders that are bigger and can deliver more wattage.. gotta take that role... c'mon its (rider1) not a jack of all trades.. he is a small mountain rider, that also can muster a decent time trial, but explode with a lot of wattages, he aint good at..

When POgacar / UAE put tempo today Jonas was all alone in the front with numerous UAE .. rest of Jumbo's team, were down in 10 to 40 positions, and far from ideal for their captain to be isolated with 3 UAE members on such a relatively weak climb amongst only 5 riders..

Jonas Vingegaard admitted a year back in a press briefing about which of Pogacar's strengths he wanted the most and concluded that it's his biggest weakness vs Pogacar, that he simply can't put that wattage & explosion down into the bike on a flat surface or small hill.. "I lack that explosion Pogacar got".

Pogacar makes fun of Van Aert & how hysteric he is... "like a child" https://sport.tv2.dk/cykling/2023-07-02-pogacar-haaner-wout-van-aert-som-et-barn (video)
but it's more the Belgian speakers, that goes bananas because "the Jumbo Vista king" who according to them is Van Aert. didnt won a stage today and believes that it's little Vingegaard that should monitor & close everything.. - no he shouldn't, Vingegaard shall monitor Poagacar wheel and dont loose to much to him
 
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