Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 7: Mont-de-Marsan - Bordeaux, 169.9k

[Gigs_98]

Philippsen is really one of the less convincing "dominant sprinters" in recent Tours. There is usually one guy who wins the majority of the sprints and that's clearly him this time but I'm really not sold on him yet.

 

[tobydawq]

If Binny doesn't ease up, he'll spend the next three months in the hospital.

Good thing he eased up then.

 

[tobydawq]

Philippsen is really one of the least convincing "dominant sprinters" in recent Tours? There is usually one guy who wins the majority of the sprints and that's clearly him this time but I'm really not sold on him yet.

??

 

[RobertCrawley]

Rewatching the sprint, I could see Philipsen getting relegated.

He definitely shuts the door on Girmay.

If I were king of the cycling world, I would relegate him. If they keep letting this stuff go, it's going to keep happening, and eventually someone's going to get really hurt.

 

[Carols]

Nyet. If they make us pay, there should be no commercials.

You don't have to, you Choose to

 

[Boehmand]

Exactly, deviated from his sprint and endangered another rider. Had Grimay not reacted to the move he would have ended up in the barriers at 60kmh+.

I dunno about "endangered", but he definitely went from the extreme left, to the extreme right, and impeeded Girmey from launching his sprint... he may even have made contact with his front wheel.

 

[jono]

Philippsen is really one of the least convincing "dominant sprinters" in recent Tours? There is usually one guy who wins the majority of the sprints and that's clearly him this time but I'm really not sold on him yet.

Maybe he's less of a "pure" sprinter (he's been building a bit of a classics resume) but if he isn't dominant surely there must be someone who is close. But is there?

 

[proffate]

If Binny doesn't ease up, he'll spend the next three months in the hospital.

You act as if sprinters never touch each other.

 

[movingtarget]

A few frustrated looking faces behind Phillipsen and I don't think it's just about getting beaten. That's his second victory that looked borderline legal.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well in terms of pure speed, he has won against anyone so far, but he obviously has a lot to thank Mathieu for. I think that's the best leadout rider I have seen or at least can remember, because god knows I don't really remember that stuff.

I can't be mad at that domination at all though, he seems like a nice lad and he's by far the most versatile of the top sprinters considering he has finished second in Roubaix. That's truly the mark of a very well rounded rider when he can also sprint like this, so Im a fan of course.

 

[kingjr]

A few frustrated looking faces behind Phillipsen and I don't think it's just about getting beaten. That's his second victory that looked borderline legal.

All faces look frustrated after a sprint finish, except for that of the winner.

 

[Boehmand]

You act as if sprinters never touch each other.

No he doesn't, he is just pointing to why it was an unfair sprint by Philipsen, which appears to be in clear conflict with the rules on "staying in your lane".

When you watch the replay, Philipsen launched his sprint from the extreme left of the road, then went clear across the road to close the gap to the right of Cavendish on Girmay and squeezing him into the barrier, before then switching direction again and passing Cavendish on the left.

It's one of the wildest cases of deviation we have ever seen in a sprint, without it resulting in penalty - which I think is what many find surprising.

 

[Red Rick]

Well in terms of pure speed, he has won against anyone so far, but he obviously has a lot to thank Mathieu for. I think that's the best leadout rider I have seen or at least can remember, because god knows I don't really remember that stuff.

I can't be mad at that domination at all though, he seems like a nice lad and he's by far the most versatile of the top sprinters considering he has finished second in Roubaix. That's truly the mark of a very well rounded rider when he can also sprint like this, so Im a fan of course.

Basically you literally can't have a better leadout than MvdP because typically leadouts tend to be sprinters themselves who just lack some top end speed, not guys who are physiological freaks

 

[Fantastico]

I dunno about "endangered", but he definitely went from the extreme left, to the extreme right, and impeeded Girmey from launching his sprint... he may even have made contact with his front wheel.

I'm also not sure about how much he actually "endangered" Girmay, as I've seen way worse moves in many sprint finishes, and of course fighting for positions is part of being a sprinter. But at least we shouldn't act like Philipsen just follows van der Poel's wheel or just tries to get to Cavendish's wheel etc. To me it's clear that he changes his lane on purpose to impede others in their sprint. He is clever enough to do it at the edge of what is allowed (or let's better say "of what is tolerated"), though.

 

[Gigs_98]

??

In two out of three wins he made very questionable moves that easily could have seen hin relegated, he is benefiting massively from insanely good leadouts by MvdP and currently his opposition is pretty meh.

It's not that he isn't a very good sprinter but he really has a lot going for him right now.

 

[kingjr]

No he doesn't, he is just pointing to why it was an unfair sprint by Philipsen, which appears to be in clear conflict with the rules on "staying in your lane".

When you watch the replay, Philipsen launched his sprint from the extreme left of the road, then went clear across the road to close the gap to the right of Cavendish on Girmay and squeezing him into the barrier, before then switching direction again and passing Cavendish on the left.

It's one of the wildest cases of deviation we have ever seen in a sprint, without it resulting in penalty - which I think is what many find surprising.

He went across the road to take Cavendish's wheel, not to squeeze Girmay into the barrier. I'm pretty sure Girmay could see it happen from a mile away and is mostly frustrated that he didn't manage to get ahead of Philippsen in time.

"Before then switching direction again and passing Cavendish on the left"

So the faster guy should stay behind the slower rider in front of him, because otherwise he would be switching direction?

 

[RobertCrawley]

I wonder what people would say if JtD moved Cav into the barriers and not Bini.

 

[Boehmand]

I'm also not sure about how much he actually "endangered" Girmay, as I've seen way worse moves in many sprint finishes, and of course fighting for positions is part of being a sprinter. But at least we shouldn't act like Philipsen just follows van der Poel's wheel or just tries to get to Cavendish's wheel etc. To me it's clear that he changes his lane on purpose to impede others in their sprint. He is clever enough to do it at the edge of what is allowed (or let's better say "of what is tolerated"), though.

I find it surprising it was not penalised, thinking on the previous penalties handed out in sprints this Tour.

It's appears to both be an obvious case of deviation and an obvious case of deliberate impeeding.

 

[kingjr]

I'm also not sure about how much he actually "endangered" Girmay, as I've seen way worse moves in many sprint finishes, and of course fighting for positions is part of being a sprinter. But at least we shouldn't act like Philipsen just follows van der Poel's wheel or just tries to get to Cavendish's wheel etc. To me it's clear that he changes his lane on purpose to impede others in their sprint. He is clever enough to do it at the edge of what is allowed (or let's better say "of what is tolerated"), though.

To me it's clear that the sun revolves around the earth. I mean just look at it, it's kinda obvious

 

[Breh]

Philipsen said he'd like to see Cav win...will he be able to return to Belgium now...he's going to need a disguise and armed protection.

Did you notice how Philipsen didn't say the same about Girmay?

Do you know why they hate eachother so much? They both rode G-W and I never even saw them chatting there.

 

[Boehmand]

He went across the road to take Cavendish's wheel, not to squeeze Girmay into the barrier. I'm pretty sure Girmay could see it happen from a mile away and is mostly frustrated that he didn't manage to get ahead of Philippsen in time.

"Before then switching direction again and passing Cavendish on the left"

So the faster guy should stay behind the slower rider in front of him, because otherwise he would be switching direction?

But he DID squeeze Girmay into the barrier.

Intent is not the issue - and makes no sense to debate when none of us can know.

I am speaking to the changes in direction, because of the rules on maintaining your lane in a sprint.

From where Philipsen started, he had a wide open lane to the line, there was no need for him to change lanes, and when it resulted in impeeding another rider that he did change lanes, it became a rule infraction.

To be clear, you can change lanes as much as you want in a print - UNLESS it impeedes another rider - if it does it becomes an infraction.

 

[proffate]

When you watch the replay, Philipsen launched his sprint from the extreme left of the road, then went clear across the road to close the gap to the right of Cavendish on Girmay and squeezing him into the barrier, before then switching direction again and passing Cavendish on the left.

It's one of the wildest cases of deviation we have ever seen in a sprint, without it resulting in penalty - which I think is what many find surprising.

What do you mean "close the gap to the right of Cavendish"? Cav himself closed the door on the right side. If Cav hadn't done that, Girmay could have tried to pass on Cav's right.

The deviations that are penalized happen when a slowing rider knows he will get passed and changes lines purely to prevent that from happening. Phillipsen was the one doing the passing and he had a perfectly good reason to ride where he did, which was to benefit from Cav's slipstream. That Girmay had the same idea (with poorer execution) was just a coincidence. As soon as Phillipsen got close to Cav, Girmay handed him the wheel.

I doubt you've ever raced because this is exactly what sprinting consists of. It's a game of chicken where might makes right.

 

[RobertCrawley]

I watched it (yet) again and Bini and JtD were fighting for Cav's wheel. Cav moved to the far right next to the barrier and JtD stuck to Cav's wheel, squeezing out Bini.

I'm less convinced that it was a penalty.

 

[Jagartrott]

Final kms look dangerous, so there will be no crashes.
Cycling logic.

Have a laugh, but happy that cycling logic is confirmed yet again.

 

[Fantastico]

To me it's clear that the sun revolves around the earth. I mean just look at it, it's kinda obvious

It's clear to me because he has changed langes in every single sprint finish so far. First stage win, I give him the benefit of the doubt and that the barriers were designed in a bad way. Second stage win, he overtakes van der Poel and then goes completely to the right (not to get someone's wheel) instead of sprinting in his lane to the finish line, because that way he get's slightly in front of Ewan who has to go to the left to pass him. Today, he deviated from his line again. If you don't see a pattern...