Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 9: Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat - Puy de Dôme, 182.4k

[Divergence]

They’ve worked for him at every stage needed, which is what rallying your troops is.

Sure...
It seems to be that when the pressure is on (now at the Tour, and to a lesser extend at PN) Jonas is not as good as everyone thinks he is (he should be). I actually liked Jonas last year, but now (after his somewhat lucky TdF win) there is some sort of a reputation of him being unbeatable on MTF so I am glad people get to see the pecking order.

 

[Trofonios]

Neither on stage 6 and 9 did Pog spend any extra energy, he followed wheel and attacked hard in the end. Pog's attacks are just vicious, extremely hard too follow (Hell he even dropped van Aert and VDP on Kwaremont)

When Pog can ride like this he is unstoppable.
Clear advantage Pog now.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Sure...
It seems to be that when the pressure is on (now at the Tour, and to a smaller extend at PN) Jonas is not as good as everyone thinks he is (he should be). I actually liked Jonas last year, but now (after his somewhat lucky TdF win) there is some sort of a reputation of him being unbeatable on MTF so I am glad people get to see the pecking order.

Not as good as everything thinks he is?

Did you check his jersey color?

 

[jono]

According to Jumbo, their sports scientists identified "recovery" as one of the few areas where Vingegaard was better than Pogacar... and results week 3 the last 2 years appear to support that theory.

Vingegaard gained 12" in the final week in 2021. Cut the gap from 5'32" to 5'20". Given the situation, hard to imagine that Pogacar felt he needed to do more than follow Vingegaard in the final week.

The results last year do support your argument.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Sure...
It seems to be that when the pressure is on (now at the Tour, and to a smaller extend at PN) Jonas is not as good as everyone thinks he is (he should be). I actually liked Jonas last year, but now (after his somewhat lucky TdF win) there is some sort of a reputation of him being unbeatable on MTF so I am glad people get to see the pecking order.

Somewhat luck TDF win? He absolutely destroyed Pogi on two mountain stages and a TT, I wouldn’t consider that lucky. I still think Jonas is a little ahead of Pogi in the pecking order.

 

[Netserk]

Because he couldnt gap Pogi, or because he tried and lost time?

But Pogacar is definitely by favorite by now as well.

Latter. He went too deep. 53’’ as a lead would make it far easier to defend.

What’s the point of using the teammates so fast today, if Kuss only had to take over with 3 km to go, he could have lasted to the finish. It’s not like Adam Yates could drop Kuss.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

Good on Michael Woods. Great that he gets a win at age 36!

I have a soft spot for the older guys, always happy when one is able to pull it off against the youngsters.

 

[Divergence]

Not as good as everything thinks he is?

Did you check his jersey color?

Did you chek which stage it is? Or is he a rider who is just happy wearing the yellow a bit?

 

[awavey]

Good luck you your team with such a leader

hes leader only in so far that hes their rider with the best chance to take the overall win, Id say its the road captains job to be extrovert "leader" and motivator for the other riders to feed off in that situation.

 

[ontheroad]

Sure...
It seems to be that when the pressure is on (now at the Tour, and to a lesser extend at PN) Jonas is not as good as everyone thinks he is (he should be). I actually liked Jonas last year, but now (after his somewhat lucky TdF win) there is some sort of a reputation of him being unbeatable on MTF so I am glad people get to see the pecking order.

Not sure if this is sarcasm, a lucky TDF win last year?......and him also currently leading the race this year!!

 

[HelloDolly]

Pidcock has really surprised me so far

Not me ...been arguing on here for 2 years that he has the talent to be a top GC GT rider but hasn't concentrated on it yet ...this is his first try

Telling that he wasnt even happy with the result and wants more
If he wasnt riding for GC he could have been in the break for this stage and prob won it ..which is shame for him

 

[red_flanders]

Guess you are not old enough to remember Indurain...

Indurain was a nice, calm, good dude. Quite likable. Vingegaard seems like a nice guy but not totally comfortable with himself, thereby creating an awkward feeling when interacting with him. Literally the opposite of Indurain.

Vingegaard is basically Froome without the constant lying and gaslighting.

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Did you chek which stage it is? Or is he a rider who is just happy wearing the yellow a bit?

It’s stage 9, which is about when the GC represents who’s been the best rider so far. So far Jonas has earned the yellow, and saying otherwise is lunacy.

 

[Poursuivant]

'Pogacar can't do gradients over 8%'
'Pogacar can't handle the heat'
'Pogacar can't do difficult climbs'

Thoughts and prayers with the twitter Watt VAM experts

 

[RobertCrawley]

Not me ...been arguing on here for 2 years that he has the talent to be a top GC GT rider but hasn't concentrated on it yet ...this is his first try

Telling that he wasnt even happy with the result and wants more
If he wasnt riding for GC he could have been in the break for this stage and prob won it ..which is shame for him

Me neither. He's a great talent, great bike handler who won a gold in the Olympics in mountain biking. He's got some serious game.

 

[Peyroteo94]

According to Jumbo, their sports scientists identified "recovery" as one of the few areas where Vingegaard was better than Pogacar... and results week 3 the last 2 years appear to support that theory.

Yeah, they also thought Pogacar was "on his knees" on Tourmalet.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Indurain was a nice, calm, good dude. Quite likable. Vingegaard seems like a nice guy but not totally comfortable with himself, thereby creating an awkward feeling when interacting with him. Literally the opposite of Indurain.

Vingegaard is basically Froome without the constant lying and gaslighting.

I just need to add that he was not as nice as one Mr. Neilson Powless.

 

[perico]

Pogi is just better than him at 20 minute efforts. The pendulum swings towards Jonas as the climb gets longer.

I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that. If you take the position that Tadej was just subpar last year, there isn’t enough data to really make that claim either way. Tadej was extremely strong on high peaks for both his wins and could still have not hit his peak.

He’s won at Luz Ardiden, the Grand Columbier, was only bested by Roglic out of the favorites on the Col de Loze (when he was 20 years old in his debut), dropped everyone on the regular Columbier, put 30 seconds into Jonas on the 21 KM Montee de Tignes, won at St. Lary Soulan.

I’ll give you Mt Ventoux from 2021, but that’s 3 times JV has dropped Tadej including last year. It shows that he’s arguably as good as Tadej on certain types of climbs, but it’s nowhere near definitive that Jonas is superior to Tadej on any terrain.

 

[Miha81]

Psychologically this is a big win for Pogi but the Vinge managed to limit loss.

I hope we are in for a long TDF action

 

[Boehmand]

Vingegaard right now in an interview with Danish TV2:

"it will be the next 14 stages that decide the Tour".

- I guess if he is riding 2 more stages than Pogacar, he will be absolutely right!

 

[Roku]

This is perhaps one of the more impressive rides he's had, because it shows he is really good at the Carlos Sastre job, letting go early and riding to his own pace, only to re-emerge near the front after everybody else goes into the red fighting each other. Sastre was renowned for riding most MTFs as though there was no other rider on them, he would just ride his speed whether it was off the back, off the front or in the group, depending on what he was comfortable with; whereas some riders like Evans would panic if they got dropped so would go deep into the red to stay with the leaders until he popped, Sastre didn't care about letting go if he couldn't match their pace, he'd just do a pace he knew HE could sustain and more often than not he'd overtake a lot of people who had already dropped him before, similar to Woods' example from the break.

The good old days with Sastre fighting against Menchov and Evans

 

[Jumbo Visma Fan :)]

Vingegaard right now in an interview with Danish TV2:

"it will be the next 14 stages that decide the Tour".

- I guess if he is riding 2 more stages than Pogacar, he will be absolutely right!

He’s definitely cooked, needs a rest day. Probably just talking about the days to Paris and misspoke anyways.

 

[Boehmand]

Vingegaard gained 12" in the final week in 2021. Cut the gap from 5'32" to 5'20". Given the situation, hard to imagine that Pogacar felt he needed to do more than follow Vingegaard in the final week.

The results last year do support your argument.

It's not my argument, it's Jumbo's.

If you don't believe them, that is cool by me.

 

[perico]

Vingegaard is the first TdF winner or contender that I've seen with zero personality. He also has less charisma than chatGPT.

Nice as he is and as much as I love and respect they guy, what impression did Indurain give you that attracted you to his outgoing personality?

 

[Peyroteo94]

Latter. He went too deep. 53’’ as a lead would make it far easier to defend.

What’s the point of using the teammates so fast today, if Kuss only had to take over with 3 km to go, he could have lasted to the finish. It’s not like Adam Yates could drop Kuss.

Today, yates was better than Kuss. Kuss just went deeper to put a hard tempo for Vingegaard. After that he blew completly.