Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 9: Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat - Puy de Dôme, 182.4k

[topcat]

WTF?! Why are people discussing Indurain in the 2023 stage 9 thread?!

Because he was one of the most exciting and brilliant riders ever. And ppl have started to compare this tour to the 1989 tour. In the 1989 tour stage 9, Indurain attacked with 100 km to go and won the stage.

 

[dobrien]

Couldn't watch live, just watched replay. Takeaways:

Pog clearly has the momentum at the moment, and in almost every sport but especially GT racing this is of critical importance. It seems logical to think his form will be on the rise; if Jonas is on a fitness plateau or in any way dropping in form he's dead. Recovery is always the important piece in the last week but even more so with such a hard first week. Pog is strong and getting stronger, confident and unafraid, and personally I think he's in perfect position right now. No need to be in yellow, he's driving from the back seat.

Jonas impressed today; hung tough and limited his losses well. He's got a lot of character and won't stop fighting... still, he's taken a couple big psychological hits which will leave their mark. In my view, Jumbo have a decision to make with respect to their priorities. If their number one priority is to win the Tour with Jonas, it's time now to have a little sit-down and make sure everyone on the team knows it's all hands on deck from here on out, including Wout. We're 9 stages in, Wout has taken some shots but so far is not the rider he was last year. Moving forward Jumbo just cannot afford to be torching Benoot et al just to position Wout for stages, unless in Jumboland a stage win somehow equals another Tour win. Just my .02.

Sepp looked tired today, hard first week plus Giro in the legs; hung on until late but dropped when a bigger pull might have discouraged or delayed a Pog attack? Hard to say how it would have played out but he needs to take some easy days or they will for sure not have him in the third week.

Hindley riding smart; he really seems to know himself well. Smooth and steady Jai.

Yates brothers looking good but really hoping Adam/UAE aren't hoping for a podium for him. He needs to be there just in case Pog finds himself needing a Kuss-like effort at a critical moment; fun to fantasize about him going on the attack to make Jumbo chase but I just don't think trying to do the Rog thing is the smartest move, he's great but no Rog. Stick with Pog as long as he can and if he backs into the podium as a result great.

Never thought I'd see the day I'd be rooting for Ineos... great rides by Pidcock and Rodriguez; two very interesting guys to watch the rest of the way.

Gaudu, definitely didn't seem to have the form coming in and no fun having the whole team working for you and not really being in the fight at the moment. Could be worse but he's just meh unfortunately.

Simultaneously gutted for Matteo and very excited for Woods; that was a great battle today. Too bad there can be only one.

Not really any throwaway stages coming up; some pretty hilly terrain and hard racing to come, then right back into Grand Colombier on Friday; this just isn't going to let up at all. So far still to go, we could be looking at a completely different Tour in a week. Riveting stuff.

 

[Andre]

Jumbo needs to start thinking that Vinegegaard might not have it. They should save some riders to try to help Wout (and convince him) to change his mind and try for the green plus some stages.

 

[jono]

Jumbo needs to start thinking that Vinegegaard might not have it. They should save some riders to try to help Wout (and convince him) to change his mind and try for the green plus some stages.

Wout would probably need to win 3 stages in which Philipsen fails to notch a single point (ie: all breakways) to challenge for the green jersey.

 

[Rob5091]

There's that old saying about the defination of madness, being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result sometime. Jumbo should think of that after stages 6 & 9.

 

[Rob5091]

What else are they going to do though? Pog is going to be fine whether Jumbo ride hard or whether they sit back; they don't have the Roglic threat this year which was SO critical last year. For now, driving from the back seat suits Pog and UAE more than fine.

Looking at the profiles for the next few stages (and 12 in particular) Pogacar will be in yellow next weekend if things carry on the same. If Vingegaard is pooped by the way Jumbo are riding, then knock it off and let UAE ride on the front. Pogacar is the one who needs to make up time.

 

[Sciatic]

Pidcock has the ability ..always

Just testing himself for GC ....When he does it for real ?

When he does it for real . . . Will be in a Tour route with more time trial kms and facing Remco and Ayuso as well as Pogacar and Vingegaard. But really great showing today nonetheless.

 

[Sciatic]

There's that old saying about the defination of madness, being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result sometime. Jumbo should think of that after stages 6 & 9.

While the saying seems logical, it in fact describes most of our society.

 

[Sciatic]

Why oh Why oh Why

are Landa or Pinot not in the break today ??

Pinot didnt even try ...he was sitting down the back

Seems obvious that Pinot was all in for Gaudu on this stage,

 

[Sciatic]

Guess you are not old enough to remember Indurain...

I was about to say the same, but in a way Indurain’s riding —the imperious, powerful presence, along with his size—gave him a “personality” of sorts.

 

[Peter von]

Jumbo needs to start thinking that Vinegegaard might not have it. They should save some riders to try to help Wout (and convince him) to change his mind and try for the green plus some stages.

THey already left Vingegaard to fend for himself Saturday because they wanted to do the work, that otherwise Alpecin or Trek would have done.

But yes, they need to have Wout focus more on Wout, not worry about satelite riders and if Vingegaard is strong enough to beat Pogi he'll do it in mountains and the ITT.

 

[Salvarani]

Couldn't watch live, just watched replay. Takeaways:

Pog clearly has the momentum at the moment, and in almost every sport but especially GT racing this is of critical importance. It seems logical to think his form will be on the rise; if Jonas is on a fitness plateau or in any way dropping in form he's dead. Recovery is always the important piece in the last week but even more so with such a hard first week. Pog is strong and getting stronger, confident and unafraid, and personally I think he's in perfect position right now. No need to be in yellow, he's driving from the back seat.

Jonas impressed today; hung tough and limited his losses well. He's got a lot of character and won't stop fighting... still, he's taken a couple big psychological hits which will leave their mark. In my view, Jumbo have a decision to make with respect to their priorities. If their number one priority is to win the Tour with Jonas, it's time now to have a little sit-down and make sure everyone on the team knows it's all hands on deck from here on out, including Wout. We're 9 stages in, Wout has taken some shots but so far is not the rider he was last year. Moving forward Jumbo just cannot afford to be torching Benoot et al just to position Wout for stages, unless in Jumboland a stage win somehow equals another Tour win. Just my .02.

Sepp looked tired today, hard first week plus Giro in the legs; hung on until late but dropped when a bigger pull might have discouraged or delayed a Pog attack? Hard to say how it would have played out but he needs to take some easy days or they will for sure not have him in the third week.

Hindley riding smart; he really seems to know himself well. Smooth and steady Jai.

Yates brothers looking good but really hoping Adam/UAE aren't hoping for a podium for him. He needs to be there just in case Pog finds himself needing a Kuss-like effort at a critical moment; fun to fantasize about him going on the attack to make Jumbo chase but I just don't think trying to do the Rog thing is the smartest move, he's great but no Rog. Stick with Pog as long as he can and if he backs into the podium as a result great.

Never thought I'd see the day I'd be rooting for Ineos... great rides by Pidcock and Rodriguez; two very interesting guys to watch the rest of the way.

Gaudu, definitely didn't seem to have the form coming in and no fun having the whole team working for you and not really being in the fight at the moment. Could be worse but he's just meh unfortunately.

Simultaneously gutted for Matteo and very excited for Woods; that was a great battle today. Too bad there can be only one.

Not really any throwaway stages coming up; some pretty hilly terrain and hard racing to come, then right back into Grand Colombier on Friday; this just isn't going to let up at all. So far still to go, we could be looking at a completely different Tour in a week. Riveting stuff.

I think they want to keep A. Yates fairly close on the GC for the time being and that he will attack early/try to go into the break on stage 14 or 17.

It is just a good card to have for the time being. He is close enough on the GC, that they just cant ignore him if he goes and Pog could just sit on while they chase.

Right now, he has done a good job to be near if something was to happen to Pog.

 

[Blanco]

He was boring AF. That doesn't mean he doesn't have class, but he appeared to have the personality of barely toasted white bread.

Edit: With no butter or jam

You certainly didn't like him, and that's why he was boring to you. To me, he certainly isn't, class on and off the bike, humble champion, true gentleman of the bike racing.

I for instance doesn't like Vingegaard and Van Aert much, so I find them boring , and think they don't have much personality.

 

[Peter von]

I think they want to keep A. Yates fairly close on the GC for the time being and that he will attack early/try to go into the break on stage 14 or 17.

It is just a good card to have for the time being. He is close enough on the GC, that they just cant ignore him if he goes and Pog could just sit on while they chase.

Right now, he has done a good job to be near if something was to happen to Pog.

Yeah, also, they have a good number of strong climbers and Jumbo is doing most of the pulling anyway, so Why not take a cheeky 1st/2nd + 3-10th, it doesn't look like it will cost them anything at the moment to keep Yates in the GC.

 

[Blanco]

Jumbo needs to start thinking that Vinegegaard might not have it. They should save some riders to try to help Wout (and convince him) to change his mind and try for the green plus some stages.

On the contrary, everything points up that this is going to be tight battle, so Vingegaard really needs whole team at his disposal, not chasing some secondary goals.

 

[Rackham]

This is just me but I thought the visuals on Puy-de-Dôme were really underwhelming, i.e. once they went beyond the part with the spectators there was just riders climbing a straight road alongside a rusty railway line & a finish line which looked like an entrance to an industrial site.

It looks way better from the helicopter view than down on the road itself.

 

[ciranda]

Yup, Vinge always dropped Pog with glasses. Glassless Pog is a new rival that Vinge cant beat.

It's important. Vingegaard needs to drop the glasses himself, just like last year where he never used sunglasses in the important stages and not coincidentally crushed it.

Pogi / Vingo = Pogi advantage
Pogi / Vingo = Vingo advantage
Pogi / Vingo = very close level?
Pogi / Vingo = god only knows

 

[rallybanana]

Pogi / Vingo = Vingo advantage

It's actually true!!

Ventoux

Granon

Hautacam

 

[Earns1985]

It's actually true!!

Ventoux

Granon

Hautacam

Is there a also picture from Marie Blanque?

 

[Carols]

1995 - the day before a TT.

View: https://youtu.be/TqVZZcvhlXM?t=1128

Yeah, and his ass was out of the saddle a Long Time too

 

[ManicJack]

I think they want to keep A. Yates fairly close on the GC for the time being and that he will attack early/try to go into the break on stage 14 or 17.

It is just a good card to have for the time being. He is close enough on the GC, that they just cant ignore him if he goes and Pog could just sit on while they chase.

Right now, he has done a good job to be near if something was to happen to Pog.

Absolutely no chance that JV or any team trying to keep a rider high in the GC lets A. Yates get in ANY breakaway. That's nonsense.

 

[Grayguard]

Jumbo needs to start thinking that Vinegegaard might not have it. They should save some riders to try to help Wout (and convince him) to change his mind and try for the green plus some stages.

Hmmm....

This was 1 year ago, after stage 9:

RNK.	RIDER	TEAM	TIME
1	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	33:43:44
2	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Jumbo-Visma	0:39
3	THOMAS Geraint	INEOS Grenadiers	1:17
4	YATES Adam	INEOS Grenadiers	1:25
5	GAUDU David	Groupama - FDJ	1:38

But you're ready to call it; Vingegaard doesn't have it.

 

[Andre]

Hmmm....

This was 1 year ago, after stage 9:

RNK.	RIDER	TEAM	TIME
1	POGAČAR Tadej	UAE Team Emirates	33:43:44
2	VINGEGAARD Jonas	Jumbo-Visma	0:39
3	THOMAS Geraint	INEOS Grenadiers	1:17
4	YATES Adam	INEOS Grenadiers	1:25
5	GAUDU David	Groupama - FDJ	1:38

But you're ready to call it; Vingegaard doesn't have it.

No. I said he might not have it...and if so, go to plan B.

 

[Rob5091]

"Vingegaard doesn't have it" - more like, has Pogacar learnt not to chase down a guy nearly 3 minutes down on GC?

 

[Grayguard]

Facts:

1) Pogacar has dropped Vinge twice so far, Vinge has dropped Pogacar once (2-1)
2) Vinge dropped Pocgacar by more time that 1 time, than Pogachar won the other two. Which is why he's still in yellow.

It's almost like people choose the facts that suits their narrative, and ignore those that doesn't....

Edit: Spelling