Tour de France Tour de France 2023, stage 9: Saint-Léonard-de-Noblat - Puy de Dôme, 182.4k

[staubsauger]

that's like saying Telegraph/Galibier is only an HC because it's really long lol

I mean Galibier can be ridden with 41/17 so that's a fair point!

 

[Divergence]

He still is the best climber in the race. By facts, namely seconds. Pogacar looks good this year bit Vingegaard has a net gain on him on the climbing stages so far. The wide gap of those two to the rest of the field is anyway not under debate.

When Pog and him team ride smart like today or stage 6 he is better than Jonas. When he rides weird like stage 5 he can lose and when he is just dumb like on stage 11 last year he can lose a lot. In any case when Pog rides smart and well only Rog can beat him.

 

[topcat]

No way you can have watched the Tours he won, and say he was entertaining to watch

1994 tdf stage 11: Attacks Swiss Tony in the Pyrenees and puts 2 minutes into him. I’ve listed other examples over the years. Not boring, just class.

 

[staubsauger]

1994 tdf stage 11: Attacks Swiss Tony in the Pyrenees and puts 2 minutes into him. I’ve listed other examples over the years. Not boring, just class.

Yeah, I just wanted to write: Indurain absolutely attacked in pursuit of Pantani up towards Hautacam! It's just that LeBlanc jumped from his wheel as soon as Pantani was reeled in.

Ugrumov, Virenque & Rominger all were gapped.

 

[bNator]

Huh? What does having no charisma have to do with being a good leader or not?

you can‘t be serious, right? You appear to be so I’ll treat your post as such…

Good leader is always charismatic. That doesn’t mean you can’t be an introvert, of course… Bill Gates and Elon Musk being probably the most obvious examples of introverts being charismatic. Charisma has many shapes and forms. I wouldn’t even go as far as to clam Vinge has no charisma. He could just lack the “media friendly” charisma. But if he really has no charisma, then he surely can‘t be a good leader…

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I mean Galibier can be ridden with 41/17 so that's a fair point!

Sounds like the vintage classic days with no further options

 

[Carols]

Pidcock further cementing his status as the new Nibali. No form at all at The TDS, or the first few days here.

Doesn't he actually have to win something Big. Like 4 GTs and 3 Monuments before being called the new Nibali?

 

[IndianCyclist]

Doesn't he actually have to win something Big. Like 4 GTs and 3 Monuments before being called the new Nibali?

he did win the baby giro, so he can at least be called Baby Nibali😁

 

[Carols]

I agree he was class
....
Not only that, but in all the 85 mass-start Tour stages he rode in his 5 wins (20 TT's across those Tours), he never attacked, not once, ever... in fact, I even doubt his ass ever left the saddle, for those 5 Tours.

I'm pretty sure he attacked hard in the stage that Johan sucked his wheel all the way to end and then passe him. No idea what year it was...

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Indurain with zero personality?! Oh man, did you watched Tours back than, or just read the wikipedia or something 20 years later?
The man was a class all the way...

He was boring AF. That doesn't mean he doesn't have class, but he appeared to have the personality of barely toasted white bread.

Edit: With no butter or jam

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Edit: oh, and Pla d'Adet, 10,2km @ 8,3%, has also been given HC before, as was Finhaut-Emosson (Col de la Gueulaz) in its sole appearance in 2014, 10,4km @ 8,4%.

On a personal note I did a single climb up to Lac d'Emosson dam (and beautiful prehistoric landscape with direct view to Mont Blanc) just once. And though 25 years now have passed (in fact on this very day when I think of it!?!) the lactate acid seems still settled in my legs

I still regard this as the hardest climb I've ever done on a bike.

This from a spare time rider who, after all, has also climbed l'Alpe d'Huez numerous times, Col du Télegraphe-Col du Galibier combo, Col du Glandon (both sides), Cîme de la Bonette-Restefond (both sides), Col d'Izoard, Col du Vars, Isola 2000, Les-Deux-Alpes and the like.

Finhaut-Emosson caught me totally off guard (me just curious whether it was possible to ride up to the dam), this climb is really where numbers don't reveal much.

The first section from the bridge in the deep valley near the hydroelectric plant up to village Finhaut is easy
But after first hairpin it's just relentless and in fact reminds a bit of Puy-de-Dôme, i.e. with a terribly long steep +3k section with no hairpin turns, just what feels like an endless, continous steep section.
The road winds its way between the rock wall, and you are hoping for just a tiny flat section/hairpin, round the bend, but you are cheated every time.
And then finally, when the hairpins finally appears, the climb becomes downright vicious.

So a HC mark for this one is just as obvious as for Puy-de-Dôme.

Edit: Col de Sarenne from Lac du Chambon dam/Mizoën is another treasure of 'a hidden HC-candidate'
(or it could be defined as one 19k/1260 altitude meters gain climb, starting from flat Romanche valley).

Back to recent years ASO category markings:
They often seems senseless, with a clear hint that they want to influence a given stage in a certain direction. Of which I do not like at all - leave it up to the riders to write cycling history.
If I should give in a bit; Col de Sarenne from this tough side could still be a Cat 1 if not final climb, but clearly a HC if designed as MTF.
Just my humble take on that part.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Someone has Pogacar's numbers in this climb? He took 6:18 minutes to do only 2 km. But I would like to know his numbers in the last 4 km.

 

[Panda Claws]

Someone has Pogacar's numbers in this climb? He took 6:18 minutes to do only 2 km. But I would like to know his numbers in the last 4 km.

2*km = 6m + 18s -> 4*km = 12m + 36s

 

[VeloMaster]

Something seems to be missing for them.

Hmmm, Rogla?

 

[zigzag wanderer]

I'm pretty sure he attacked hard in the stage that Johan sucked his wheel all the way to end and then passe him. No idea what year it was...

1995 - the day before a TT.

View: https://youtu.be/TqVZZcvhlXM?t=1128

 

[Tricycle Rider]

2*km = 6m + 18s -> 4*km = 12m + 36s

On a personal note I did a single climb up to Lac d'Emosson dam (and beautiful prehistoric landscape with direct view to Mont Blanc) just once. and though 25 years now have passed (in fact on this very day when I think of it!?!) the lactate acid seems still settled in my legs

I still regard this as the hardest climb I've ever done on a bike.

This from a spare time rider who, after all, has also have climbed l'Alpe d'Huez numerous times, Col du Télegraphe-Col du Galibier combo, Col du Glandon (both sides), Cîme de la Bonette-Restefond (both sides), Col d'Izoard, Col du Vars, Isola 2000, Les-Deux-Alpes and the like.

Finhaut-Emosson caught me totally off guard (me just curious whether it was possible to ride up to the dam), this climb is really where numbers don't reveal much.

The first section from the bridge in the deep valley near the hydroelectric plant up to village Finhaut is easy
But after first hairpin it's just relentless and in fact reminds a bit of Puy-de-Dôme, i.e. with a terribly long steep +3k section with no hairpin turns, just what feels like an endless, continous steep section.
The road winds its way between the rock wall, and you are hoping for just a tiny flat section/hairpin, round the bend, but you are cheated every time.
And then finally, when the hairpins finally appears, the climb becomes downright vicious.

So a HC mark for this one is just as obvious as for Puy-de-Dôme.

I don't actually ride a bicycle in the mountains at all, but I just loved your description of what it must be like.

Just wanted to say that anyway.

 

[Andy schleck]

By the way, can we conclude that Puy de Dôme is a very mid climb? The last four kilometers are the only thing that matters and there are no spectators.

The climb is mythical, but i really didn't like. Only the last 4 km mattered, and without specators....it's not the same thing.

 

[Andy schleck]

Someone has Pogacar's numbers in this climb? He took 6:18 minutes to do only 2 km. But I would like to know his numbers in the last 4 km.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1678115559970357248

View: https://twitter.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1678115559970357248

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

Glancing post race postings here, it is becoming clear to me that I stand by my first position;
ASO should never have arranged a revisit after the reintroduction of railway and World Heritage status.

Without those 'obstacles', we've had a fully packed vulcano, spectators all over.
And this place would have extended its honors in the history books and still with mythical aura around it.
Instead, ASO has now secured many derogatory terms about this climb.

 

[dobrien]

It was a bit worrying for Vinge that Kuss dropped with S. Yates, two Ineos riders and Pog still there. A. Yates and Hindley further behind.

Kuss has already done a lot of work here in the first week, when he is usually taking it easy and rested for whats to come in the first part of the race. The route has sort of made that impossible though.

Kelderman seems to be able to drop a serious pace to get rid of many riders but only for a short while. Then dropping like a stone.

Vinge is more exposed to these attacks from Pog this year, if they cant set the pace for him and neutralize.

Van Aert was massive on stage 6... but he has not been in the same form as last year in the Tour, where he was dominating in the first week.

Something seems to be missing for them. Maybe they will turn it around. Still in the lead all things considered and the really high mountains yet to come.

Good post. I think they need to let Sepp take a rest this week; based on what we're seeing now they are really going to need him in the last week.

 

[jmdirt]

WTF?! Why are people discussing Indurain in the 2023 stage 9 thread?!

 

[dobrien]

But will it make a big difference?

Main two GC racers seem like level above everybody. Pace set by domestiques does not seem to affect them anymore.

If Adam gets just a little better he can be a perhaps very needed antidote to Sepp the final week; you never know when it's going to come down to that one critical moment on that one climb...

 

[dobrien]

Chapeau Woods & IPT - surprised he was allowed to get in the break, but no threat on GC so the break had to drop him long before the last climb. Was not quite long enough though for Jorgenson.
Is it Vingegaard's turn to be effected by high temperatures or has Pogacar improved? Jumbo seemed frazzled so are probably looking forward to a rest day. Jumbo are also dragging Pogacar around and need to put on their thinking caps.

What else are they going to do though? Pog is going to be fine whether Jumbo ride hard or whether they sit back; they don't have the Roglic threat this year which was SO critical last year. For now, driving from the back seat suits Pog and UAE more than fine.

 

[dobrien]

I was impressed that Vingegaard only lost 8-10 seconds. I thought he might implode in that last km. Not quite sure how/why TJV is always doing all the work, though.

Jonas has a lot of character; he fought back hard. He is not going to lie down and die, thats for sure. This Tour has already been epic and honestly if it keeps going like this we could be on the verge of watching the greatest edition ever, or at least since 89.

 

[dobrien]

Yeah, I just wanted to write: Indurain absolutely attacked in pursuit of Pantani up towards Hautacam! It's just that LeBlanc jumped from his wheel as soon as Pantani was reeled in.

Ugrumov, Virenque & Rominger all were gapped.

That was a great stage with the fog/mist, otherworldly and epic. LeBlanc at his amped up best.