Tour de France Tour de France 2024, Stage 15 14/7 Loudenvielle-Plateau de Beille 197.7k

[Unchained]

Yet it does work like that. Look at how Benoot, Jorgenson, etc went above their limit today and were able to drop better climbers than them. They are able to do that for more than 1 minute. Again, when Landa only loses 1m over 10k of climbing, he should have been able to pace Evenepoel quite a bit, but it would come at the expense of his own GC.

Sure except for the two or 3 different differentials..first if Landa was to be any use to Remco after original gap, Landa has to close it up, so ride slightly faster than Remco for that distance, then once he does the temp acceleration to reach his supreme leader, he needs to climb at same or slightly better pace to do any good!! He has nothing in the bank to begin with and trying to make a withdrawal, going uphill to benefit Remco is a big ask and for an unknown net gain because Pog and Jonas dropped Remco like a dirty diaper in last few kilometers. Landa staying right near the limit instead of going deeper deficit was a good move.. You see guys like Healy that took lots out of the bank, first in the time trial, which he was never going to win and then made another huge withdrawal when dim bulb Jonathan Vaughters had temp crazy Koolaid party that Carapaz was a contender and EF wasted a bunch of Healy, Possess and Quinn energy supporting the silly pipe dream that is Carapaz mixing it up w the best. EF should have saved the calories for stage wins, not betting on lame Ecuadorian donkey..
And what Benoot and Jorgenson gave was also unnecessary, too much, Vingegaard needs to listen to himself, believe what he says, Pogacar is better, race according, don't pull him up this climb or any climb!! Pog's ego and lack of maturity will have him burning matches for stage wins, bonuses and glory!! Just settle in behind and limit your losses and hurt Remco when possible. Jonas hurt Remco today but at what cost? Pog, got win and bonus and gave Ving some additional mental baggage of dropping him again!! Visma needs to wake up and smell the cat food and make Landa and Remco try to win something back.. If Remco doesn't win the TT he is over!!

 

[James M]

At least I had one prediction right.

Best climbing performance of all time. Epic. Goat whatever you like.

 

[staubsauger]

Agree. Remco himself should also get better at actually using Landa, but I kinda think he wants to test himself and then quickly realizes they are just going too fast and then settles into a tempo early on. At that point, Landa is further behind and of no use.

Remco's race now is to not detonate in the Pyrenees like in the 2023 Vuelta a Espana. So of course he climbs at his own pace and secures his podium spot ahead of Almeida & Rodriguez!

 

[Unchained]

Spell check says Neilson Powless is Possess!!

 

[AmRacer]

What does this have to do with anything? I am discussing the use of Landa for Evenepoel, which so far has been zilch.

Landa cannot pace Remco, but he's last man until Jonas and Tadej attacks. In the valley, you maybe noticed that Landa ask Remco what he needed before the climb. And Landa fetch that for him. That's Landa job. If Jonas and Tadej hadn't been there, Landa could've setup a furious pace for Remco. So, Landa is doing his job.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Will I havent made any comment that said he wasnt helping .....wheras you have definite opinions on it and little evidence either way

The fact that he is 5th in GC is proof in itself that he hasn't spent energy in helping Evenepoel, unless you think Landa was going to rival Pogacar and Vingegaard otherwise. He hasn't paced him once, he hasn't lead him on crucial descends and he generally rides behind him. I'd say that's plenty of evidence to suggest his input as helper of Evenepoel is limited.

 

[AnotherArmChair]

You were talking present tense. I don't care what someone wrote years ago, when there was every reason to be enthusiastic. And plenty of that enthusiasm has turned out to be justified.

It wasnt years ago and no one is saying Remco isnt a top rider just not a top climber in comparison to Pog and Vinge

But I stand by my view t that alot of Remco fans would get carried away if he won the Tour because neither Vinge or Pog was there ...They want to believe

Having said that he could yet win a Tour if alot of TT and maybe one of them wasnt there or such ...

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Landa cannot pace Remco, but he's last man until Jonas and Tadej attacks. In the valley, you maybe noticed that Landa ask Remco what he needed before the climb. And Landa fetch that for him. That's Landa job. If Jonas and Tadej hadn't been there, Landa could've setup a furious pace for Remco. So, Landa is doing his job.

Yes he can pace Remco, but he choses not to, that's the point. When he is only 1m slower over 10km, then he is close enough to manage his efforts in another way, but it would be at the expense of his own GC.

 

[kingjr]

It wasnt years ago and no one is saying Remco isnt a top rider just not a top climber in comparison to Pog and Vinge

But I stand by my view t that alot of Remco fans would get carried away if he won the Tour because neither Vinge or Pog was there ...They want to believe

Having said that he could yet win a Tour if alot of TT and maybe one of them wasnt there or such ...

So, in short, you're upset about some idea of Remco fans that exists only in your head. I'll leave you to it then.

 

[KZD]

Legendary stuff that we have witnessed this weekend. If yesterday was already a bonkers performance from Pogačar, today was even crazier, unless something unexpected happens he will win this Tour and lock in the best season from a rider in the 21st century and this with the Olympics, Worlds and Lombardia still to come.

A word about Vingegaard too, he showed real courage attacking from so far out and manage to do a legendary performance himself that will only not be talked about more because his main rival did the best climbing performance ever. Great work from his teammate Kelderman today.

Remco doing very well once again, obviously he is on another league when compared to Pogačar and Vingegaard but he is very nice buffer on the remaining riders which should means that the final podium is getting closer. Great climbing performance from Landa too to get himself into the top5.

Almeida pacing himself very well, as usual, and managing to beat Rodriguez in the end which disappointed me a little bit especially because De Plus still helped him a bit on Plateau de Beille.

 

[AmRacer]

Yes he can pace Remco, but he choses not to, that's the point. When he is only 1m slower over 10km, then he is close enough to manage his efforts in another way, but it would be at the expense of his own GC.

Jonas paced Tadej and was 1 min slower. So you are maybe right.

 

[armchairclimber]

Well that was a bit nuts. I must say, I've not been a fan of Vingo really ... but I watched a post-race interview today and really warmed to him. He admits that his only hope is for Pog to have a bad day. He's proud of his performance, saying it was one of the best of his life today ... yet he still conceded over a minute). The times would back that up. Some journo said something about Plugge asking "If anyone has any ideas how you beat Tadej in this form, I want to know". Jonas said "I wanna know too".
I kinda like him now. A bit. I certainly admire his courage and spirit.

 

[RobertCrawley]

Grandpa G is old school, sticking newspaper under his jacket at the top of the col to keep warm on the descent

https://twitter.com/x/status/1812538770522001885

View: https://x.com/GeraintThomas86/status/1812538770522001885

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Quote of the day:

“When those two guys went past, it’s like I don’t do the same sport as them” is how Tobias Halland Johannessen (Uno X-Mobility) described being passed by Tadej Pogačar (UAE Team Emirates) and Jonas Vingegaard (Visma-Lease a Bike) on the final climb after fighting for the win on stage 15 of the Tour de France in the breakaway.

 

[Unchained]

Landa cannot pace Remco, but he's last man until Jonas and Tadej attacks. In the valley, you maybe noticed that Landa ask Remco what he needed before the climb. And Landa fetch that for him. That's Landa job. If Jonas and Tadej hadn't been there, Landa could've setup a furious pace for Remco. So, Landa is doing his job.

If you want to talk team player, guy punching above his weight, guy who rides his role, everyday, doing only everything important it's Nils Politt. Guy is bike racer trapped in a basketball body, chasing on flats, first guy, sometimes only guy breaking up ugly head or cross winds and the guy is doing some serious work way way deeper into these climbs everyday than anyone can expect. He is giving a great showing. If Landa was to do @25% of the grunt work of Politt he would have popped days ago.. and Ineos has to be thinking plan B or C w this time gap.. Bernal or Kwiatkowski need to go after something, Rodriguez is sort of distant possibility

 

[dobrien]

Will I havent made any comment that said he wasnt helping .....wheras you have definite opinions on it and little evidence either way

With Remco riding this well on his own he isn't going to be as dependent upon Landa anyway. Where Landa could be of HUGE help is if Remco blows to the extent his podium is in jeopardy (which of course I do not want to see). For the most part circumstances just really haven't warranted Landa getting in front of Remco a la Kuss/Vingo last year. I think at the very least it's some psychological warm fuzzies knowing Landa is there or thereabouts if he is really needed. Just my .02 of course.

 

[Scarponi]

Quote of the day:

“When those two guys went past, it’s like I don’t do the same sport as them” is how Tobias Halland Johannessen (Uno X-Mobility) described being passed by Tadej Pogačar (UAE Team Emirates) and Jonas Vingegaard (Visma-Lease a Bike) on the final climb after fighting for the win on stage 15 of the Tour de France in the breakaway.

There was a helicopter shot of them going past some of the break, and they didn’t completely stop. Looked like 2-3x faster

 

[AnotherArmChair]

The fact that he is 5th in GC is proof in itself that he hasn't spent energy in helping Evenepoel, unless you think Landa was going to rival Pogacar and Vingegaard otherwise. He hasn't paced him once, he hasn't lead him on crucial descends and he generally rides behind him. I'd say that's plenty of evidence to suggest his input as helper of Evenepoel is limited.

Yes he can pace Remco, but he choses not to, that's the point. When he is only 1m slower over 10km, then he is close enough to manage his efforts in another way, but it would be at the expense of his own GC.

I am not sure how esle to say this ...you cannot pace someone up the road
How could anyone think Landa is going to rival Pog or Vinge and where did I say or hint this ????? Jazus

So, in short, you're upset about some idea of Remco fans that exists only in your head. I'll leave you to it then.

Yes that whole thread on Remco is in my head and I mighty upset by it all


Long day ...off out of this as life is too short for illogical argument just cos people want to be right

So here it is

You are right Landa is doing diddly squat for Remco

Remco fans on here are very reasonable bunch with no bias whatsoever

 

[dobrien]

Well that was a bit nuts. I must say, I've not been a fan of Vingo really ... but I watched a post-race interview today and really warmed to him. He admits that his only hope is for Pog to have a bad day. He's proud of his performance, saying it was one of the best of his life today ... yet he still conceded over a minute). The times would back that up. Some journo said something about Plugge asking "If anyone has any ideas how you beat Tadej in this form, I want to know". Jonas said "I wanna know too".
I kinda like him now. A bit. I certainly admire his courage and spirit.

Totally agree with this. I've always admired people who might be beaten physically, but just will not give up mentally. I've really warmed to him this Tour.

 

[titan31]

Tbf it's better for Soudal Quick Step that Landa hasn't really had to work for Remco. He's going to finish 3rd anyway (and Landa working or not isn't going to put him above Pog or Vingegaard) and they also get a 2nd top 5 if he can stay ahead of CRod.

 

[Izzyeviel]

 

[Unchained]

Quote of the day:

“When those two guys went past, it’s like I don’t do the same sport as them” is how Tobias Halland Johannessen (Uno X-Mobility) described being passed by Tadej Pogačar (UAE Team Emirates) and Jonas Vingegaard (Visma-Lease a Bike) on the final climb after fighting for the win on stage 15 of the Tour de France in the breakaway.

Weird watching guys try to jump on!! When Carapaz got passed he attempted to keep the wheel off a few feet and then said, oh I see why I got dropped!! A sort of whooshing sound!!

 

[staubsauger]

"Historical comparisons tell us nothing except maybe to fuel the cries of those that want to always call doping".

Rasmussen and Contador were doping though - which would mean that without doping, if their diet back then was so nutritionally inadequate compared to today, you could add another 4 to 8 minutes (given whatever they were taking was increasing performance by 10-20%) onto their times in 2007? Surely that can't be the case.

Rasmussen introduced todays orthorexia into the peloton!

 

[kingjr]

I am not sure how esle to say this ...you cannot pace someone up the road
How could anyone think Landa is going to rival Pog or Vinge and where did I say or hint this ????? Jazus


Yes that whole thread on Remco is in my head and I mighty upset by it all


Long day ...off out of this as life is too short for illogical argument just cos people want to be right

So here it is

You are right Landa is doing diddly squat for Remco

Remco fans on here are very reasonable bunch with no bias whatsoever

You have just massively shifted the goalposts. You were saying something about 6 Tour wins earlier. Go ahead, ask Logic whether he thinks that's feasible at this point.

 

[Stelvio]

Regarding Landa, it's probably better for Remco if he hangs a minute back all the way up rather than pushing hard and then cracking. Remco is very good at pacing himself, but in case he has a crisis, Landa can be there.

Edit: And a potential two guys in the top 5 is as good an outcome that Soudal-Quickstep could hope for in this tour.