Tour de France Tour de France 2024: Stage 19: Embrun - Isola 2000, 19/07 144.6k

[FrontHeadlock]

Good for Powless. In a sense, gifting stages devalues them, except in unusual circumstances (as in stage 1 this year, when teammates took each other to the finish and Bardet was "allowed" to take the win). Pog and Jorgenson ride for different teams. Pog did right by his team and showed that he cherishes every grand tour stage.

There is a difference between "gifting" a stage and not going for every stage.

There are riders in the peloton who hold back in certain stages. Are those stages "gifted" because not every single rider is going for the victory?

 

[titan31]

Their logic is that having a few guys winning everything and do battle against each other will draw in a casual audience because it doesn't require the same attention-span and can be condensed into 5 minute YouTube shorts and Netflix documentaries. The problem is that it isn't the reason a lot of us posting here watch, cycling historically has been a long-form sport that rewarded engagement and attention to detail with its massive pool of potential winners and this is what we became accustomed to, the assumption we worked under.

Contrast the discourse of younger posters on reddit/twitter with the mood on here right now, the sport to varying degrees has always required a suspension of belief that is completely gone amongst most fans that have been paying attention for any period of time, but the money keeps on rolling in and the newer fans are pouring in.

The bubble will burst eventually as usual, and these once new fans (the ones that stick around) will become cynical trolls like myself, but for now unfortunately our opinions are a bit irrelevant.

There is still plenty of cycling to enjoy, so I continue to watch, but if any new fan might happen to see this post, don't deify these top guys, don't hold them on a pedestal, because they will just let you down, they always do.

I dunno, like if I compare cycling to F1. F1 have had a pretty big issue the last few years where it was Max turns up and Max wins. It turned off casuals and some of the longer term fans a bit and really didn't help on converting the DTS audience into more F1 fans (like earlier seasons did where we had Max vs Lewis in competition). The most extreme one I can think of of the sports I watch is mens cross country skiing as without the Russians, even I barely watch it anymore as it's just what Norwegian wins.

Cycling I think has a danger of going a similar direction if this sort of domination continues by Pogacar and VdP in the classics (those races were done whenever he attacked this year). Cycling needs a competition, even if it's just Pog vs Vingegaard and VDP vs WVA, but the one man shows we've basically got in every major race this year will kill it. The other thing is someone like Jorgensen winning today (a US rider winning a stage in the Tour again) does far more for the sport than Pogacar winning another stage. It's the same as Girmay winning earlier in the race, or Bardet's win. Those wins do far more for the sport than Pogacar winning again does (same as when we get breakaways that make it as you can do a person wins against all odds narrative).

 

[JosefK]

There is a difference between "gifting" a stage and not going for every stage.

There are riders in the peloton who hold back in certain stages. Are those stages "gifted" because not every single rider is going for the victory?

Fair point. I soured on my own comment after re-reading it and deleted it. ... Carry on.

 

[movingtarget]

How is it a humiliation...The man was in intensive care 8 weeks ago . Behave
Anyone who can get 2nd in the Tour after that is as tough as steel


Derek Gee is a top athlete. Just cos you dont know his ability doesnt mean he cant do what he did . He showed how he can climb at the Dauphine. Thisd forum is ridiculous ...no one is allowed to turn up and be good except those you deem worthy

This is no necessarily the best he can do . Why is it ? he has 6 weeks to train and this is what he did. If that annoying poster (James M) who keeps posting over and over again about Vingegaards best numbers last week in the Pyrenees would think for a moment . Its not about your best numbers on one day ...its about your recovery and best numbers every day ...that is based on your base which he never got a chance to build after his injury. For me it feels he went deep today and probably feels he let the team down and was emotional ..He tried and did well considering where he came from

What II meant, is the best he could do with the preparation he had. Some riders do exactly the same prep and races every season and the variability of the results is huge and they never know why. Missing a block of training and racing to compete against someone like Pogacar is never going to go well. Even Evenepoel is looking as good as Vingegaard at the moment if not better. The TT should be interesting re the results of the top 3. Vingegaard looks like he is getting weaker in the final week but most people do against Pogacar in the form he has had for the past 3 months or so.

 

[proffate]

Yup

Nothing will beat that TT

The problem with crazy TT performances is that they're much harder to compare because of the vagaries of aerodynamics. The pdb performance this year must come close.

 

[Valv.Piti]

And people say the time limits are laughable.

They are, and continue to just get expanded so that weak riders like Cavendish can stay in the race. Quite pathetic if you ask me especially since these riders don't have a single thing to contribute anyways

They should have been sent home in the Pyrenees already.

Do we know if this is purely on ASO or if Adam Hansen has convinced them to expand it on stage 15, 19 and 20?

 

[RobertCrawley]

There is a difference between "gifting" a stage and not going for every stage.

There are riders in the peloton who hold back in certain stages. Are those stages "gifted" because not every single rider is going for the victory?

I'm not sure I understand your point. Every rider would love to win every stage, I would imagine.

In this particular case, if Tadej had eased up so that Matteo could win, yes, that would have been a gift.

 

[BigL]

In case people have forgotten. Last year, Vingo won by 7:29 over Pog, the largest MOV in like a decade, I believe. Only something like 16 riders were within 1 hour of Vingo on GC.
For all the pearl-clutching going on here, if anything, last year was even more monstrous than this year.

Not really. For the top.
Pogacar blatantly cracked last year after the ITT and his weakness gave the largest MOV for whenever. Neither Vingo nor Remco has cracked this year, and the margin stands to be even bigger.

 

[Valv.Piti]

In case people have forgotten. Last year, Vingo won by 7:29 over Pog, the largest MOV in like a decade, I believe. Only something like 16 riders were within 1 hour of Vingo on GC.
For all the pearl-clutching going on here, if anything, last year was even more monstrous than this year.

Not really. Pog and Vingo were extremely close until stage 16 and then lost lots of minutes on stage 17 due to bonking, not Vingo being otherwordly

 

[jono]

Not really. For the top.
Pogacar blatantly cracked last year after the ITT and his weakness gave the largest MOV for whenever. Neither Vingo nor Remco has cracked this year, and the margin stands to be even bigger.

The gap to 2nd, sure, but the gaps to 3rd and beyond were just as large.

 

[OJRvE]

On this day in 2010.

In stage 15 of the 2010 Tour de France, Alberto Contador attacked on the Port de Balès. Andy Schleck tried to follow, but had issues with his chain. He had to stop to fix his bike. It took 34 seconds to fix his issues and get back on his bike. After getting back on his bike, he couldn't catch Contador, who finished 39 seconds ahead of Schleck and took the yellow jersey.

After the race, Contador said that he hadn't seen his rival's mechanical issue.

The hate Contador got for this considering the only reason Schleck was ahead was due to him riding away on the cobbled stage where Conatdor was held up by Fränks crash and maybe even by a puncture, dont remember. And dont even forgot the prior stage where Andy was unfortunant and Cancellara policed the peloton and gifted the stage and yersey to Chavanel so Andy could come back.

 

[Finn84]

With the time limits, I think the biggest problem is that 200-kilometre multi-mountain-stage (let's use this year's Plateau de Beille stage as an example has same time limit as a stage with similar length but just one tough mountain at the end, few Mont Ventoux stages fit that bill.

 

[kingjr]

There is a difference between "gifting" a stage and not going for every stage.

There are riders in the peloton who hold back in certain stages. Are those stages "gifted" because not every single rider is going for the victory?

How many riders are there who know they would most likely win the stage if they went for it, have no other obligations to their team for which they would need to save energy, but then don't go for it?

 

[Tim Cahill]

Magnus Cort finished 26th today, what a display

 

[RedheadDane]

Magnus Cort finished 26th today, what a display

Bluestache power!

 

[topt]

could somemone explain to me why Remco would pull Jonas

 

[Rechtschreibfehler]

"Red Rick was trolling so badly when he said he was nostalgic for the Sky era"

Not all of us like suffering.

 

[SHAD0W93]

could somemone explain to me why Remco would pull Jonas

Try tire him out so he drops and loses time today or the next two stages.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Pogačar was faster than me uphill but I passed him on the downhill, what a loser

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Not really. Pog and Vingo were extremely close until stage 16 and then lost lots of minutes on stage 17 due to bonking, not Vingo being otherwordly

Wait, Vingo's TT was not "otherworldly"?
Vingo cracked Pog on Stage 17. But I guess that doesn't count either. Got it.
Let me know when you all finally decide where to put the goalposts.

 

[memyselfandI]

The pdb performance this year must come close.

I don't think so, on stage 2 and 11 are the only moments he did push with similar rage. Everything else on this edition is far far far behind that level.

Was very surprising to see that Evenepoel didn't have grinta and legs to go away from Vingegaard in the endgame. Where's that sprint leadout-world champion-multiple Liege punch now?

 

[dobrien]

I don't think so, on stage 2 and 11 are the only moments he did push with similar rage. Everything else on this edition is far far far behind that level.

Was very surprising to see that Evenepoel didn't have grinta and legs to go away from Vingegaard in the endgame. Where's that sprint leadout-world champion-multiple Liege punch now?

What do you mean didn't have the 'grinta'? He didn't have the legs or he surely would have dropped Jonas; has he not proven his toughness by now? Remco in my opinion has exceeded expectations this year and has ridden a very solid, tough Tour. Come on.

 

[KZD]

First of all, hope that the Tour returns to this area in the next years because these are some beautiful mountains that allow good racing.

I am lost of words for Pogačar, this really is his season, another brutal performance on a MTF today.

I didn't like Visma's strategy but Jorgenson really showed how good he is on the high mountains as well, I think he really could be a future GT contender. Kelderman also did a great job for his teammate.

Simon Yates seems to be getting back at his best and Carapaz once again very tenacious, the KOM jersey looking likely at this point which I didn't expect earlier this week.

About the rest of the GC riders, Vingegaard clearly didn't have it today, following Remco was the best that he could do and also good performances from Almeida, Landa and Yates. Disappointed with Carlos Rodriguez once again, this should be his terrain and Gall's too.

 

[johnymax]

A Tour with an asterisk. Rogla would have hang on to Pogačar today and beat him in the final ITT. A shame...

 

[fbjim]

A Tour with an asterisk. Rogla would have hang on to Pogačar today and beat him in the final ITT. A shame...

It already had an asterisk when Quintana did not start