Tour de France Tour de France 2026 route rumours

[Krzysztof_O]

That's so stupid IMO...

Not necessarily. When a climb is hardly paced then other guys "virtually" lose time to Pogacar even when they still ride together (due to bigger accumulated fatigue/higher lactate levels). But your point stands i.e. Pogacar loses hardly any time to Evenepoel on flat TTs compared to big differences in the mountains.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Not necessarily. When a climb is hardly paced then other guys "virtually" lose time to Pogacar even when they still ride together (due to bigger accumulated fatigue/higher lactate levels). But your point stands i.e. Pogacar loses hardly any time to Evenepoel on flat TTs compared to big differences in the mountains.

If we had the opportunity to have a tough road stage and then they would climb a MTT, are you sure Remco doesn't lose 10"/km to Pogacar?
His argument is stupid. It's like someone saying now, Pogacar gained 2'51" on Remco on stage 15 and this is just 0.85"/km because that stage had 199 km.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

If we had the opportunity to have a tough road stage and then they would climb a MTT, are you sure Remco doesn't lose 10"/km to Pogacar?
His argument is stupid. It's like someone saying now, Pogacar gained 2'51" on Remco on stage 15 and this is just 0.85"/km because that stage had 199 km.

His argument makes sense in a way I told you i.e. Jorgenson absolutely killing the bottom third of Plateau de Beille clearly affected Remco more compared to Pog so it makes sense to count the whole climb in this case. As for your general remark, it's quite likely that Remco is close to 10''/km behind Pogacar indeed (during last Lombardy it was nearly 9''/km on Ganda after only a moderate pace on previous climbs).

 

[Faserr]

Lipowitz wants to ride the Tour and not the Giro. The team will decide later. He doesn't know yet.
Source: ARD Tourfunk Podcast today

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

That's so stupid IMO...
You put a MTT on Galibier and I'm pretty sure Remco loses way more than 18" in 22 km.

Both ways of counting are stupid in their own way.
Counting the whole climb is probably still the best way if one are trying to estimate timeloss over a full Tour, because you know beforehand how long the climb are - and you dont know when Pogacar will create the separation.

Bottom line is more like counting timeloss in seconds/kilometer like one does in TT does not make much sense when it comes to climbing.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Lipowitz wants to ride the Tour and not the Giro. The team will decide later. He doesn't know yet.
Source: ARD Tourfunk Podcast today

As he should. To me it looks like a good parcour for him.

 

[Lequack]

Can Del Toro win this?

 

[Remy55]

Lipowitz wants to ride the Tour and not the Giro. The team will decide later. He doesn't know yet.
Source: ARD Tourfunk Podcast today

For me it sounds that it’s already decided that he will ride the Tour, he just can‘t say it.
Specially because he said the Giro wasn’t discussed at camp.

 

[Peyroteo94]

His argument makes sense in a way I told you i.e. Jorgenson absolutely killing the bottom third of Plateau de Beille clearly affected Remco more compared to Pog so it makes sense to count the whole climb in this case. As for your general remark, it's quite likely that Remco is close to 10''/km behind Pogacar indeed (during last Lombardy it was nearly 9''/km on Ganda after only a moderate pace on previous climbs).

It doesnt because you will have a similar scenario next year. UAE will put a hard pace before Pogacar's attack. So you compare similar scenarios. Answering your point, if you looked to the whole climb, do you think Pogacar was just 18" better than Remco on Galibier? This depends a lot from when Pogacar attacks. Counting when Pogacar attacks is way more reliable to assess their levels.

Just for curiosity, would you look to results in a MTT to assess the difference between riders in road stages? Of course not, it's stupid. Roglic is a prime example of that.
Next year, the Tour will have the UAE train putting a hard pace all day in the mountains. The only GT we saw a peak Remco against a peak Pogacar is the 2024 TdF. This is why I took time differences from that GT. And it's good for Remco I only took the 2024 TdF as an example. If I saw the time gaps (s/km) between Remco and Pogacar in all mountain stages they raced together, the scenario would be even darker for Remco.
In fact history shows 10"/km is a great result for Remco. And this is pure evidence, facts are there to see.
But let's move on. We don't need to agree.

 

[Berniece]

For me it sounds that it’s already decided that he will ride the Tour, he just can‘t say it.
Specially because he said the Giro wasn’t discussed at camp.

It’s not like they know the route of the Giro. Hard to make such a decision then. I would think Lipowitz rides TDF anyway, maybe another GT too

 

[HashRouge]

It’s not like they know the route of the Giro. Hard to make such a decision then. I would think Lipowitz rides TDF anyway, maybe another GT too

I think they should send both Lipo and Remco to the Tour. If you want to cause a bit of chaos, then that's the best way to do it. Send Roglic and Pelizzari to the Giro.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It doesnt because you will have a similar scenario next year. UAE will put a hard pace before Pogacar's attack. So you compare similar scenarios. Answering your point, if you looked to the whole climb, do you think Pogacar was just 18" better than Remco on Galibier? This depends a lot from when Pogacar attacks. Counting when Pogacar attacks is way more reliable to assess their levels.

Galibier wasn't steep enough plus the headwind reduced w/kg needed for guys hidden in the group. In PdB it's obvious that the first 5 km of the climb cooked Remco, who was clearly above his threshold and that's why he spilled so much time later. It's not an excuse for him, just a simple observation that you can't just start counting climbing kilometers from the moment of an attack. It's so obvious that anyone should see it.

As for similar scenario next year it's true but it's a climb length that enables UAE (or Visma) cook other guys behind super-doms so they are already high in lactate (compared to Pogi/Vingo) when a decisive attack comes.

 

[red_flanders]

I think they should send both Lipo and Remco to the Tour. If you want to cause a bit of chaos, then that's the best way to do it. Send Roglic and Pelizzari to the Giro.

I would have imagined that to be the default plan.

 

[YavorD]

I think they should send both Lipo and Remco to the Tour. If you want to cause a bit of chaos, then that's the best way to do it. Send Roglic and Pelizzari to the Giro.

It would be a chaos in their own camp imo. Very funny to see how Evenepoel and Lipowitz co-exist in the same team.

The stages that suit Evenepoel are bad for Lipowitz. And then you have mountains, supposed to suit Lilo and Evenepoel not too much (although best version of Evenepoel is better that tha best version of Lipo).

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think they should send both Lipo and Remco to the Tour. If you want to cause a bit of chaos, then that's the best way to do it. Send Roglic and Pelizzari to the Giro.

Chaos to who?

 

[Cookster15]

Where do I find the stage 6 profile?

As for Remco's 2024 level, on PdB Jorgenson might well have cooked Remco in the first 5km but the stop watch shows it was still a great performance from Remco. It only looks less so because Pogacar was stratospheric.

First Jorgensen drilled the first 10km, then Vingegaard attacked at 10.5km remaining (which was when Remco was dropped). Finally at 5.3km Pogacar finished it off distancing Jonas. A triple play which demolished Pantani's climbing record by nearly 4 minutes. Remco did too despite getting dropped with Vingo's attack - riding solo the final 10km or so.

Yes he lost 2' 51" but Remco was still quicker than Heras / Armstrong in 2002 or Contador / Rasmussen in 2007. Perspective.

2024 TdF stage 15 extended highlights

 

[red_flanders]

It would be a chaos in their own camp imo. Very funny to see how Evenepoel and Lipowitz co-exist in the same team.

This makes a lot of assumptions about how these two will ride and interact together which IMO, very much remain to be seen. Don't know why they can't make the most of mutual support and a mutual threat. Sure, it doesn't always happen in these situations, but it sometimes does.

Maybe by that point in the season it will be very clear to the team internally who is stronger. Maybe they really get along and find a way to be a 2-headed monster. All very much yet to play out.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Where do I find the stage 6 profile?

As for Remco's 2024 level, on PdB Jorgenson might well have cooked Remco in the first 5km but the stop watch shows it was still a great performance from Remco. It only looks less so because Pogacar was stratospheric.

First Jorgensen drilled the first 10km, then Vingegaard attacked at 10.5km remaining (which was when Remco was dropped). Finally at 5.3km Pogacar finished it off distancing Jonas. A triple play which demolished Pantani's climbing record by nearly 4 minutes. Remco did too despite getting dropped with Vingo's attack - riding solo the final 10km or so.

Yes he lost 2' 51" but Remco was still quicker than Heras / Armstrong in 2002 or Contador / Rasmussen in 2007. Perspective.

2024 TdF stage 15 extended highlights

We are getting to the point Remco is compared to mythical climbers like LA and Contador.
The initial point was: it doesn't matter if the TdF has 20 or 100 km of TT when Pogacar is able to win between 10-12"/km in the mountains.

 

[Cookster15]

We are getting to the point Remco is compared to mythical climbers like LA and Contador.
The initial point was: it doesn't matter if the TdF has 20 or 100 km of TT when Pogacar is able to win between 10-12"/km in the mountains.

I don't think anyone was ever suggesting Remco will rival Pogacar climbing? I was simply pointing out based upon his PdB performance that Remco is a better climber than some seem to portray here. But as 2024 PdB proved he only suffers by comparison to Pogacar. But so does everyone - even Contador, Armstrong and Pantani.

 

[Netserk]

Where do I find the stage 6 profile?

 

[Netserk]

But as 2024 PdB proved he only suffers by comparison to Pogacar.

No, also Vingegaard.

 

[Berniece]

Chaos to who?

To their opponents. Just like Visma was able to create chaos with Jorgensen

 

[Netserk]

To their opponents. Just like Visma was able to create chaos with Jorgensen

Lipo is the worst ever in chaos. He would make better decisions if he primarily focuses on beating Almeida next year in the fight for third.

 

[Berniece]

Lipo is the worst ever in chaos. He would make better decisions if he primarily focuses on beating Almeida next year in the fight for third.

He will be better next year, and can listen to his directors

 

[HashRouge]

Where do I find the stage 6 profile?

It's one of the stages that currently doesn't have a profile up on the TdF website, unfortunately, but they're going up the opposite way to last year, via La Mongie. Ditto the Col d'Aspin - last year they went up from Saint-Marie de Campan, this year they go up the Arreau side.