Tour de France - Stage 9, 168.5km - Saint-Girons / Bagnères-de-Bigorre, July 7th

[Fatclimber]

http://nos.nl/video/526960-poels-schiet-vol-na-pyreneeenrit.html (Could be geo restricted).

Works for me, thank you.

 

[DirtyWorks]

...There is no point isolating Froome to try and go toe to toe on the final climb, it should have always been about isolating and then sustained attack and counter attack for 80km. Froome is the strongest rider but he can't match attacks from 20 other riders.

How is that possible when Froome rode everyone off his wheel like he was a Pro visiting a local training ride?

You are forgetting those 20 other riders you think would be around must have the power to sustain the attack, then come back the next day(s!!!) and somehow stay in the lead group yet none have the power of Froome. Not even close.

IMO, the talk out of Sky is not quite what it seems.

Finally, your references to the TdF probably weren't within human limits. Take the reference to those years into the clinic if you wish to pursue it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

... I guarantee after 40km in the red chasing a break of Costa, Rogers, Monfort, and Tendam, that Valverde can kill Froome over the top of a cat 1 and hold a couple of minutes to the line.

Pretty strong words there....

You do realize each of those riders/teams have their own goals such that your super-breakaway is not likely? And then there's the enormous power Froome *still* has that Movistar riders do not possess.

Movistar took a huge risk today. We don't know if it worked out yet. I doubt it is the strategic masterpiece some claim, but I could be wrong. Tactically, for now, another spot has opened on the podium, but the gap to first is already enormous.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Yeah lol at him

He was awesome today, done great.

A shame we'll never know how he'd handled this situation if he'd been put under more pressure

 

[karlboss]

Pretty strong words there....

You do realize each of those riders/teams have their own goals such that your super-breakaway is not likely? And then there's the enormous power Froome *still* has that Movistar riders do not possess.

Movistar took a huge risk today. We don't know if it worked out yet. I doubt it is the strategic masterpiece some claim, but I could be wrong. Tactically, for now, another spot has opened on the podium, but the gap to first is already enormous.

You do realise that their goals would more or less have intersected at this point? Take one rider from each team and throw them in a break. What do you have? Each one now has a chance at yellow in paris, what have you lost, at worst you may lose to someone else in the break. The only reason not to do it is that it has to be Valverde, or it has to be Mollema, etc. By attacking together and cooperating, they have a chance at victory. Valverde more or less locked up second and could well have lost the chance at victory for he or a team mate.

I know Froome is strong, but unless I'm mistaken they didn't win the TTT and Froome didn't ride on the front for the whole thing on his own, so yes I guarantee that chasing a break of over 60km from the descent of the 3rd last mountain to the final climb would see him tired enough to lose at least a minute to valverde/quintana etc attacking on the final climb. If nothing else tell me who the stronger climber was in 2011, Andy Schleck or Cadel Evans, and explain why And ywent up Galibier slower than Evans, and to get that point Andy had help. So how would Froome without help chasing a break not lose time to fresh riders?

You are right if the team goal is something other than put someone in the team as high possible, but more specific, their goals may not have intersected.

 

[karlboss]

Long story short either Froome chases and is more tired and is beaten, or Froome doesn't chase and the break takes 20 minutes and those in it fight out the victory. Your suggestion that Froome would still be the strongest suggests that he could ride in front all day, and still match an attack from someone on his wheel, you can only hold LT for about 90 minutes, I'm tipping 70km with 2 cat 1 climbs takes longer than that.

 

[Cimber]

It really annoyes that Movistar and Saxo didnt ride togetehr against from yesterday. Movistar seemed more busy riding for 2nd in the GC than actually going all or nothing for the yellow. At that area COntador is different and we will see Contador going for all or nothing in the Alps at some point. But I just fear taht Movistar will help Sky reel him back in, unless Contador already has a nice gap to Valverde and Quintana at that point. A real shame that they all dont only focus on yellow.

In the valley Valverde should have stopped his attack the moment he saw Froome was on his wheel. Was really dumb to carry on if you actually wanna win this. Actually that long valley section was where they could have put Froome in real troubles. He might focus on covering Valverde and Contador, but then send the lieutenants who are a GC factor up the road. Saxo did that with Kreuziger but then Valverde decideded to pull Froome up there. I really hate when teams ride for 2nd.

We risk seeing Froome just rising the Movistar train is if it was his own.

 

[ToreBear]

EBH admitted after the stage today (off record) that he has no form at all. The same goes with pretty much the rest of Team Sky. They went into this race exhausted already from training way too hard.

This makes sense. The only one(except F and P) to have performed as if in top form is Kennaugh, and I think he got his tour ticket only after the dauphine. Those planned for the tour seem totally out of it. Mind I haven't seen enough of Stannard and Thomas(due to injury) to get any idea of their form. But Kosta, Kiri and Lopez, have looked totally out of it, and now Kiri is out. EBH seems to be able to do a big job even in this form, but not what I had hoped.

My guess is that a week of flattish riding with the sprint trains taking control will see them get into pretty good form for the last week. Could be sky planned this, or it could be incompetence.

 

[boringboy]

You do realise that their goals would more or less have intersected at this point? Take one rider from each team and throw them in a break. What do you have? Each one now has a chance at yellow in paris, what have you lost, at worst you may lose to someone else in the break. The only reason not to do it is that it has to be Valverde, or it has to be Mollema, etc. By attacking together and cooperating, they have a chance at victory. Valverde more or less locked up second and could well have lost the chance at victory for he or a team mate.

I know Froome is strong, but unless I'm mistaken they didn't win the TTT and Froome didn't ride on the front for the whole thing on his own, so yes I guarantee that chasing a break of over 60km from the descent of the 3rd last mountain to the final climb would see him tired enough to lose at least a minute to valverde/quintana etc attacking on the final climb. If nothing else tell me who the stronger climber was in 2011, Andy Schleck or Cadel Evans, and explain why And ywent up Galibier slower than Evans, and to get that point Andy had help. So how would Froome without help chasing a break not lose time to fresh riders?

You are right if the team goal is something other than put someone in the team as high possible, but more specific, their goals may not have intersected.

Yes there is a good chance you can break Froome that way, but to get someone from all the main contenders to attack at same time, and get away without Froome, would be hard enough as it only works if all the others have a man in the break. Also i do understand, it should not matter for Saxo if it is Roman or AC who wins, but Saxo might have a bigger market in Spain than Czech so it is better with a main Spanish rider? The captains might care, as they need to the wins to get the sponsor deals etc, so they would all have to agree on which riders are allowed to go together.

Also I could see it end up being everyone against Sky one day, then next day, everyone against Saxo or Movistar, as there is no reason why e.g. Movistar would not try to attack Saxo in same way jointly if Saxo had Yellow jersey?

Finally, if a group had dropped Froome earlier yesterday, would he not have slowed down the "peloton" and allowed Porte back on to help with the chase? Yes he would have dropped 2 min at that point but at least had someone to share the chasing with him?

 

[Dutchsmurf]

In the valley Valverde should have stopped his attack the moment he saw Froome was on his wheel. Was really dumb to carry on if you actually wanna win this. Actually that long valley section was where they could have put Froome in real troubles. He might focus on covering Valverde and Contador, but then send the lieutenants who are a GC factor up the road. Saxo did that with Kreuziger but then Valverde decideded to pull Froome up there. I really hate when teams ride for 2nd.

To me that just showed that Movistar has already given up on winning the Tour. Continuing that move was an attack against Belkin and Contador, not against Froome.

 

[pastronef]

Kennaugh fall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmzT9YWailU

 

[Cimber]

To me that just showed that Movistar has already given up on winning the Tour. Continuing that move was an attack against Belkin and Contador, not against Froome.

Exactly. That was also was Brian Holm of OPQS is saying: "they are riding for 2nd". Saddens me

 

[Cimber]

Kennaugh fall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmzT9YWailU

Is he ok btw?

 

[dlwssonic]

well there was no way that saxo and movistar were going to drop the demigod chris froome. So I wouldn't consider it a fail, plus they managed to crack porte preventing an inevitable sky 1-2 which would have been pretty depressing.

 

[wwabbit]

Is he ok btw?

He should be fine since he managed to get back on to pace Porte back as far as he could.


As for Movistar and Saxo Bank, I can only say that their DS have a set of objectives to meet based on the situation, and that objective doesn't include satisfying the wishes of what some cycling fans on some cycling forum want to see.

 

[boringboy]

Exactly. That was also was Brian Holm of OPQS is saying: "they are riding for 2nd". Saddens me

Apparently Michael Rogers had to tell Contador not to attack as AC was very keen, but Rogers kept explaining him it is 30 km downhill finish with head wind, and still plenty of mountains to come, so better to wait.

So eventhough all the "experts" says they should have, then i do believe Rogers had a good point, he was also one of the cool head for Sky last year.

 

[Cimber]

Apparently Michael Rogers had to tell Contador not to attack as AC was very keen, but Rogers kept explaining him it is 30 km downhill finish with head wind, and still plenty of mountains to come, so better to wait.

So eventhough all the "experts" says they should have, then i do believe Rogers had a good point, he was also one of the cool head for Sky last year.

Sending lieutenants up the road in the valley (which almost happened) would have been a good move by the other teams though (on the flat Froome can only cover a select mount of riders - so if Quintana, Costa, Kreuziger, Ten Dam, Morena could have gotten clear).

Was a wasted oportunity, but maybe in the alpes then...

 

[BigMac]

At the end of the day, Movistar have 3 guys on top 10, Saxo and Belkin also have a couple while Sky only have Froome, with Porte in 33rd. One may not predict Froome will end up destroying everyone in the ITT, like Wiggins, ending up loosing some time. I think Sky not only failed today, but they won't be able to back up Froome anymore neither in Ventoux nor the Alps, only Porte and Keno maybe, considering they already lost Kiri. Regarding the lack of attacking from Movistar, there might be another explanaition. Remember when Plaza was setting the huge pace over last climb? As far as i am concerned, he was previously told to reduce it a bit, instead he continued eventually making Costa struggle, that is why Valverde rushed to him (when we all tought he was going to attack). Any Movistar attack in the last km's of climb would have destroyed him, that might be why Quintana did't have it another go when he was looking fresh. From Movistar guys in top10, Costa is prolly the best timetrialist, so expect him to advance a few positions in the GC. They just wanted more cards to play in the next mountains. As of Ax 3 Domaines, i tought the Tour was over. I even think some people are being hypocrite, because most of you were expecting Sky do dominate the GC group while the breakaway had the stage win. I don't think it was bad tactics from Movistar, maybe from Saxo.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Apparently Michael Rogers had to tell Contador not to attack as AC was very keen, but Rogers kept explaining him it is 30 km downhill finish with head wind, and still plenty of mountains to come, so better to wait.

So even though all the "experts" says they should have, then i do believe Rogers had a good point, he was also one of the cool head for Sky last year.

I trust Contador's instincts better than Rogers' to be honest. Contador probably saw the opportunity and felt he should take it. We will know in 2 weeks if Rogers was right, but I highly doubt it.

And in reply to BigMac above me. Froome won't need his team on the Ventoux stage. It is just the double Alpe d'Huez that might be a minor issue, but even there Porte only has to last until the first time at the top.

 

[markjohnconley]

Dutchsmurf, correct me but don’t these claims conflict?
“I trust Contador's instincts better than Rogers' to be honest. Contador probably saw the opportunity and felt he should take it.” (in relation to Rogers discouraging Contador to attack)
“At one point they were close to eliminating Contador and the Belkin riders too and Contador needed his complete team to fix that situation”
If I've misunderstood I blame forum speak, mark

 

[karlboss]

Exactly. That was also was Brian Holm of OPQS is saying: "they are riding for 2nd". Saddens me

and Quintana has admitted as much, they were riding to take second and choosing to take on first another day. Let's see if they get another opportunity.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

Dutchsmurf, correct me but don’t these claims conflict?
“I trust Contador's instincts better than Rogers' to be honest. Contador probably saw the opportunity and felt he should take it.” (in relation to Rogers discouraging Contador to attack)
“At one point they were close to eliminating Contador and the Belkin riders too and Contador needed his complete team to fix that situation”
If I've misunderstood I blame forum speak, mark

Different points in the race, so those 2 are not related.

 

[Cimber]

and Quintana has admitted as much, they were riding to take second and choosing to take on first another day. Let's see if they get another opportunity.

Yeah its a bit bold to expect that a similar opportunity presents itself later.

 

[Michele]

Just to put some gasoline on the fire, as we say in Italy, italian journalist just reported that most of teams didnt pass water bottles to those riders of Team Sky who got dropped and that's why Kyrienka found himself without water for some kms and got a big crisis.

 

[The Hitch]

Just to put some gasoline on the fire, as we say in Italy, italian journalist just reported that most of teams didnt pass water bottles to those riders of Team Sky who got dropped and that's why Kyrienka found himself without water for some kms and got a big crisis.

Too bad for kiri there were no movistar riders there. They wouldn't have just given him water but physically pushed him up the climb.