Tour de Pologne 2020

[Slaro]

Man speeds through village at 100 km/h, way above the speed limit, runs someone over. I would be very angry with that person, and very sorry for the victim. Feeling sorry for someone who took enormous risks at someone else's expense is not an emotion that pops up in my head.

First its not a fair comparison. Cycling is an extremely risky sport. Particularly when you participate in a 80 km/h sprint. The persons walking under a car didnt sign up for such risks. Pro cyclists, to certain extent, do. That doesnt clear Dylan from any blame, on the contrary, but if we start comparing what happened today to car accidents in cities then I feel emotions are dominating the discussion. And not ratio.

Second, it can be me, but I could feel sorry for a driver who did such a thing, even if drunk, people make mistakes, sometimes with no consequences, sometimes ending in disaster. That doesnt clear them from punishment. But I do prefer to see the human aspect as well.

 

[Escarabajo]

Ofcourse it's intentional. Obviously he doesn't want to cause a crash, but he does want to take Jakobsen to the side to close him in.

Fair enough!

For some reason I thought he couldn't see him clearly from the point where he was sprinting on the last meters. But that was my wrong take.

 

[richwallone]

...
Next point would be the metal barriers that are used in most pro races. I will never understand why they cannot switch to something else. How many times do we need to see riders being injured because a wheel makes contact with them or even worse because they crash into them. Anything is better than the current metal constructions. Be it a hay bale or some kind of inflatable barrier.

Sorry to be so frank but these imb**** used bricks for stabilizing the finishing chute barriers... I'm seriously rolling my eyes!!! Saving a few €€€??? Why not used water filled plastic containers, plenty of those are available in stores.... And on top of that why not require organizers to put up plastic barriers instead of metal ones in ALL races...

 

[markene2]

I've been in favor of completely doing away with timedifferences for the final 3k in sprintstages, for some time. That way you can keep GC riders out of the sprint chaos. It's a good thing for the GC riders, since they don't have to risk injuries due to crashes at high speed, in a situation that is completely out of their comfortzone. In turn it offers more space for the sprinters and sprinttrains. Today this wouldn't have made a difference obviously, but a crash like this could also take out a GC rider (and it has many times in the past). It's safer for all parties involved.

Groenewegen caused the crash, he closed the door on purpose, you see it clear as day in the slowmo. but talking about neutralizing every sprint for GC riders 3k out is just stupid, the more complete gc rider should be able to gain a few seconds if he accepts the risks in staying up with the sprinters.

Cycling is a extreme sport, there are risks to it, what if a rider crashes and dies on a descent tomorrow, should time gaps during descents be banned so that riders dont push downhill?
At the end of the day the riders knows the risks and accepts it, and so should we.

 

[Kazistuta]

@richwallone: ..Because you know.... wind? There's been races with lighter barriers, where wind gusts threw them against the riders, almost causing crashes.

 

[Koronin]

Basically Groenewegen tried to block Jakobsen. In several auto racing series blocking can get you penalized.

 

[klintE]

"Sportowy Wieczór" (sports evening ) just ended in polish state TV.
Final conclusion was: now Fabio is fighting to recover not for life.
Good night and good luck.

 

[djconnel]

After racing the course on Zwift, I decided to see for the first time the 2018 World Championship in Innsbruck. The Elite race are blocked from US viewers, so I watched the U23. This was a remarkable event, and I was captivated. In that race, Bjorg Lambrecht was aggressive the final time up the climb, then rode strongly in the 3-man breakaway which resulted, finishing 2nd overall.

Bjorg, as everyone knows, died not long afterwards, in a crash in last year's Tour of Poland, hitting a cement barrier.

Then this year's race, there's this -- a horrific crash in the finish. Hopefully Jakobson is okay.

Ian Boswell was recently featured on a popular cycling podcast, where he talked about his slow recovery from a concussion he suffered racing, talking about how riders risk and suffer permanent damage from starting again too soon after head injuries.

We've had a break from pro racing this year. And honestly -- I didn't miss it that much. Instead I watched a number of Zwift races instead (and raced a bunch myself). Nobody is suffering permanent head injury, nobody dying from cement barriers. The carnage takes a toll, but the racing must go on.

 

[dutchdescent]

I am aware we should first and foremost focus on and pray for a full and swift recovery for Fabio. And believe me I am horrified and I've said some prayers for him. But can we please also have a poll for what sanctions need to be issued against DG? DQ from the race already happened.., but ban for 2020 season or some other form of appropriate punishment? This cannot and must not ever happen again.. Do not get me wrong I am not out for blood or defamation but I just think this sprint behaviour is intolerable especially as it's clearly not accidental. If consensus is that a poll is inappropriate or inciting hatred I can totally accept that but I am just curious what this forum thinks.

 

[KZD]

Damn, terrible crash, I really hope Jakobsen can pull through this and if possible return to cycling (although I will completely understand if that doesn't happen).

As for Groenewegen, its nit the first time he does this kind of line change in the sprint and that coupled with the consequences of this crash makes think that he should be banned for months.

 

[jmdirt]

That looked, my neck is still tensed up!

 

[Ted Striker]

Brought back memories of the Sagan elbow on Mark Cavendish

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

If the reports here from Polish TV are correct, it sounds encouraging. If there is no serious injury to brain or spine, that’s the very best possible outcome we could have hoped for. (Quite obviously nobody is getting out of a crash like that without enough bones broken to end a season). let’s hope it pans out that way.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Groenewegen caused the crash, he closed the door on purpose, you see it clear as day in the slowmo. but talking about neutralizing every sprint for GC riders 3k out is just stupid, the more complete gc rider should be able to gain a few seconds if he accepts the risks in staying up with the sprinters.

Cycling is a extreme sport, there are risks to it, what if a rider crashes and dies on a descent tomorrow, should time gaps during descents be banned so that riders dont push downhill?
At the end of the day the riders knows the risks and accepts it, and so should we.

I think it isn´t as easy because positioning and the ability to endure a hard pace on flat stages is part of the race. We see minor gaps on flat stages at least once or twice in every GT.
We simply cannot remove all risks. GC should be about more than just pure climbing/punch and TT ability.
What would be the next step? Remove descents because they are dangerous? Take the time at the top of every mountain and restart in the valley? That´s not an option.

It is more about the organiser and making sure that the finishes are as safe as possible. Today we had a high speed sprint on a narrow road. That´s just a bad idea.
Next point would be the metal barriers that are used in most pro races. I will never understand why they cannot switch to something else. How many times do we need to see riders being injured because a wheel makes contact with them or even worse because they crash into them. Anything is better than the current metal constructions. Be it a hay bale or some kind of inflatable barrier.

Sorry. Stupid comparisons. In a descent you are usually riding single file. You can leave a gap if you don't feel safe, and there is plenty of time to recover from a small gap and you are almost entirely dependent on your OWN abilities. On top of that, possibly gaining 5 seconds in GC shouldn't have to be the incentive to risk your life (or that of others), your (or that of others) career or the race. This is not what cycling is about, and you are mistaking if you think it is.

 

[hrotha]

The problem is not this single incident. What Groenewegen did is common among sprinters even though it's clearly against the rules. Just enforce those rules consistently. It would be unfair to punish Groenewegen with exceptional severity for something that already has a clear punishment as per the rules, so apply those and let the actual justice system deal with any criminal liabilities. The answer is not to chase out of the sport those riders who cause particularly unfortunate accidents due to bad luck. Punish the behaviour, not the random consequences.

But also, Groenewegen has previous. Yes, there was a lot of bad luck involved, but that should also make Groenewegen and everyone else think that this kind of reckless behaviour always puts them a stroke of bad luck away from causing a tragedy.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Then the TdP itself should also be tried, they share some of the responsibility due to their finish design...

The finish had to have been okayed by the UCI.

Probably (or hopefully) inspected also, seeing as the Tour of Poland is a WorldTour event.

Didn't they - the UCI - release a statement on rider safety some time ago? That measures would be taken. I wonder what came of that.

 

[skippo12]

Sorry. Stupid comparisons. In a descent you are usually riding single file. You can leave a gap if you don't feel safe, and there is plenty of time to recover from a small gap and you are almost entirely dependent on your OWN abilities. On top of that, possibly gaining 5 seconds in GC shouldn't have to be the incentive to risk your life (or that of others), your (or that of others) career or the race. This is not what cycling is about, and you are mistaking if you think it is.

Love the energy. So you can tell me what cycling is about and what not? I guess that it is an emotional topic maybe we should postpone the talk about potential solutions for a few days.
Choosing to stay in front in a sprint finish is a decision as well. If they don´t fell safe riders are free to do a Thomas de Gendt and stay at the back to avoid the chaos.

 

[Devil's Elbow]

The finish had to have been okayed by the UCI.

Probably (or hopefully) inspected also, seeing as the Tour of Poland is a WorldTour event.

Didn't they - the UCI - release a statement on rider safety some time ago? That measures would be taken. I wonder what came of that.

I never said the UCI shouldn't be tried, because yes, they're not innocent here either.

 

[Pacosz]

From Kamil Wolnicki (Przegląd Sportowy - Sports Review) https://t.co/IRHKGX4Cpw?amp=1

- The doctors provided us with the latest information about Fabio's health. They said they were shocked at how strong the body was. There is no hematoma, no damaged vertebrae. He reacts to stimuli and is in a stable state. Of course, he's in a coma all the time. You still need to wait two or three days, but the most important thing is that he has been stabilized. He is managed by the Saint Barbara Hospital in Sosnowiec and I must say that the staff, led by the director, did a fantastic job, everyone is very mobilized. Fabio is still waiting for facial surgery, but specialists are already on site. In the same hospital, there is also a Cofidis cyclist in Sosnowiec, who had an open finger fracture and has already undergone surgery - told us the general director of Tour de Pologne Czesław Lang.

We also know the state of health of the judge who also suffered a lot in the accident. - Andrzej Lewandowski, the judge who was standing at the finish line had a concussion, but is already in good condition, fully conscious, no hematomas - Lang told us.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291103623406063616

View: https://twitter.com/D_Ludwinski/status/1291103623406063616

https://twitter.com/x/status/1291103672022294531

View: https://twitter.com/D_Ludwinski/status/1291103672022294531

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

But also, Groenewegen has previous. Yes, there was a lot of bad luck involved, but that should also make Groenewegen and everyone else think that this kind of reckless behaviour always puts them a stroke of bad luck away from causing a tragedy.

Does he? I watch a lot of sprints and I cant say that I‘ve picked him out as particularly aggro rider. Every top sprinter has had an incident or two where they have gone too far. It comes with the territory, they are all both fearless and incredibly competitive and you simply can’t do that job without being both. But in Groenewegen’s case I can only really recall the incident with Naessen before this one. He has never struck me as a sprinter who leaves a trail of carnage behind him.

Maybe I’m wrong, there are a lot of top sprinters and it’s easy to miss a pattern. But if there is a pattern, what parts of it am I missing? What other sprints are we talking about?

 

[Laplaz]

Encouraging news. Fingers still crossed!

 

[Jspear]

The UCI wants to do something as far as discipline.

Dylan Groenewegen facing disciplinary action after Tour de Pologne crash

'The UCI strongly condemns the dangerous behaviour of rider Dylan Groenewegen' says sport governing body

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[Red Rick]

Does he? I watch a lot of sprints and I cant say that I‘ve picked him out as particularly aggro rider. Every top sprinter has had an incident or two where they have gone too far. It comes with the territory, they are all both fearless and incredibly competitive and you simply can’t do that job without being both. But in Groenewegen’s case I can only really recall the incident with Naessen before this one. He has never struck me as a sprinter who leaves a trail of carnage behind him.

Maybe I’m wrong, there are a lot of top sprinters and it’s easy to miss a pattern. But if there is a pattern, what parts of it am I missing? What other sprints are we talking about?

"I don't do this all the time" does not make for a great defense

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Love the energy. So you can tell me what cycling is about and what not? I guess that it is an emotional topic maybe we should postpone the talk about potential solutions for a few days.
Choosing to stay in front in a sprint finish is a decision as well. If they don´t fell safe riders are free to do a Thomas de Gendt and stay at the back to avoid the chaos.

Yes, it is a decision as well, but unlike with a descent, you can not make up for it in the following kilometers and you are at the mercy of others, as i explained. And you know very well that a GC rider will not stay at the back of the peloton, unless he is ensured not to lose time, and as a result, he will get involved in what will needlessly worsen the situation. And for what? For not losing 5 seconds in GC. And considering they all try to be in the front, the result is that this scenario basically never happens with the big favorites anyway. When's the last time a sprint finish decided the GC result? How often does it happen? Right.

"I don't do this all the time" does not make for a great defense

I don't drink and drive EVERYDAY officer!