Tour de Suisse 2012: Stage 3; Martigny → Aarberg (195km)

[Epicycle]

The Tour du Sagan continues.

Yeah he's won 7 out of the last 11 stages he's raced. Would have been 9 but the solo break held on at Big Bear.

 

[BillytheKid]

well sagan state before, that he's going to test his climbing abilities here, so he will certainly not do anything like yesterday when there is a pretty good chance for him

Are you saying Sagan for the GC?

 

[Flamin]

I'm glad that Sky didn't win. Hopefully, the ease with which Sagan destroyed Swift will give them some pause the next time they think about chasing for him. It probably won't though. Somebody seems to have implanted "ruin every race" chips in their rider's heads.

yep, 2 guys sprinting for the win and the bunch softpedalling in 5 minutes behind would've been much more entertaining.

and what a disgrace, showing confidence, in absence of Cav and EBH, in a sprinter who usually doesn't get a chance that often. awful piece of people management

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Are you saying Sagan for the GC?

No. Sagan already lost 10 minutes yesterday. He is saying Sagan might try harder in the difficult stages where a win might be possible, like wednesday and sunday

 

[tomorrow]

Are you saying Sagan for the GC?

well, the profile of the 5th stage is very "classic" like, sagan is not that bad in short ascents, so we'll see, he's certainly is not favourite for this one from start, however the odds are not that bad,

as far as sagan for the gc, now certainly not, maybe in 5,6 years when he's fed up with hundreds of wins, he loose some weight and takes another challenge in his life

 

[hfer07]

P.e.t.e.r. S.a.g.a.n

don't say I didn't tell you so It was just too obvious

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

155 William ROUTLEY Spidertech Powered by C10 0:13:22
156 Igor ANTON Euskaltel - Euskadi

Anton having a hard time here

 

[BillytheKid]

well, the profile of the 5th stage is very "classic" like, sagan is not that bad in short ascents, so we'll see, he's certainly is not favourite for this one from start, however the odds are not that bad,

as far as sagan for the gc, now certainly not, maybe in 5,6 years when he's fed up with hundreds of wins, he loose some weight and takes another challenge in his life

He will have to loose 20 Kilos and also his ability to sprint. Frankly, I don't see it. He's a great rider, but he will never be a GC man in a GT or anything with climbs like this. That is not a bad thing. A points man, a stage king, a classic's winner. We know he will have great future.

Stage 5 here could go his way. They will try for it, but RSNT might make an effort to split things up with six Cat. 3 climbs. There will be some testing for sure, but Costa or Valverde are most likely to win this in the end.

 

[theyoungest]

well, the profile of the 5th stage is very "classic" like, sagan is not that bad in short ascents, so we'll see, he's certainly is not favourite for this one from start, however the odds are not that bad,

Why isn't he the favourite? Some hills, short uphill finish... looks very Sagan to me.

 

[hatcher]

I'm glad that Sky didn't win. Hopefully, the ease with which Sagan destroyed Swift will give them some pause the next time they think about chasing for him. It probably won't though. Somebody seems to have implanted "ruin every race" chips in their rider's heads.

I hate this cowardly, defeatist attitude that says you shouldn't try in case you fail. Sky were the only team that made it an exciting race, yet you want them to lose because of it. Bizarre.

 

[BillytheKid]

Why isn't he the favourite? Some hills, short uphill finish... looks very Sagan to me.

139th and over 13 minutes down yesterday. He going for the stages and points.
HC uphill finish on Saturday and 2 HC climbs Sunday.

He will be in the laughing group on the thos days and 30 minutes down on GC.

He is clearly racing as a Sprinter now and there are few here to contest him.

OK, if your just talking Stage 5, tomorrow, was on about his future as a GT GC man?

 

[Lance Armstrong]

139th and over 13 minutes down yesterday. He going for the stages and points.
HC uphill finish on Saturday and 2 HC climbs Sunday.

He will be in the laughing group on the thos days and 30 minutes down on GC.

He is clearly racing as a Sprinter now and there are few here to contest him.

The question was why he isn't favorite for stage 5.

It has written Sagan all over it.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I hate this cowardly, defeatist attitude that says you shouldn't try in case you fail. Sky were the only team that made it an exciting race, yet you want them to lose because of it. Bizarre.

Yes, indeed.
A lot of stuff posted about intolerable Sky fans on here, recently.
Well, I'm finding the Sky haters to be far worse.
In truth, either extreme tends to chuck logic out of the window.

Without their willingness to chase, today, (of course aided by Leaky etc)
the break would never have come back.
That is what a peloton's job is, after all.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I hate this cowardly, defeatist attitude that says you shouldn't try in case you fail. Sky were the only team that made it an exciting race, yet you want them to lose because of it. Bizarre.

I don't think you shouldn't try in case you fail. I do however hate teams whose central strategy is to try and throttle every race, control every break, control every climb, control everything.

Sky have huge money at their disposal, which means that they can hire very strong domestiques. They have used that strength so far this year to the detriment of many, many races and it seems to be their plan for every race from here on in. As a neutral, with no nationalist affiliation with Sky, why on earth would I cheer for that?

I'm not irrationally opposed to Sky out of some obscure prejudice. I actually liked them up until this season. But controlled racing is the enemy as far as excitement is concerned and Sky are all about controlled racing, in every type of race, and are now strong enough to actually succeed in controlling things far too often. Some British fans might enjoy that out of sheer nationalism, but nobody is really a fan of that kind of racing.

 

[hatcher]

Yes, indeed.
A lot of stuff posted about intolerable Sky fans on here, recently.
Well, I'm finding the Sky haters to be far worse.
In truth, either extreme tends to chuck logic out of the window.

Without their willingness to chase, today, (of course aided by Leaky etc)
the break would never have come back.
That is what a peloton's job is, after all.

Indeed. Orica, Liqui, Sky, the 3 teams who did the bulk of the chase ended up filling the top 3 places.

I don't think you shouldn't try in case you fail. I do however hate teams whose central strategy is to try and throttle every race, control every break, control every climb, control everything.

Sky have huge money at their disposal, which means that they can hire very strong domestiques. They have used that strength so far this year to the detriment of many, many races and it seems to be their plan for every race from here on in. As a neutral, with no nationalist affiliation with Sky, why on earth would I cheer for that?

I'm not a Sky "hater". I actually liked them up until this season. But controlled racing is the enemy as far as excitement is concerned and Sky are all about controlled racing, in every type of race, and are now strong enough to actually succeed in controlling things far too often.

Today, on the stage you are complaining about, they had Barry, Puccio, Hayman, Nordhaug working for Ben Swift. Hardly the big money, overly powerful team you are talking about.

I just can't fathom the idea that the peloton sitting up with 50k to go, allowing the 3 breakaway riders to ride pressure free until 1k to go, where Morkov easily rides away from them, was the preferable finish to the one we actually saw.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Spilak abandoned today. Anybody know what's up with him?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I
Today, on the stage you are complaining about, they had Barry, Puccio, Hayman, Nordhaug working for Ben Swift. Hardly the big money, overly powerful team you are talking about.

They had their C Team out and even then they were doing the same thing.

Their A squad were busy turning the Dauphine into a deathly dull waste of every viewer's time. Or at least every viewer who isn't the sort of British nationalist who'll cheer for a British win regardless. Maybe you didn't watch the Dauphine, which would of course be excusable given how boring it was.

 

[hatcher]

The Dauphine has absolutely nothing to do with the stage today that you were complaining about.

They, along with Orica and Liquigas made today an exciting stage.

What would YOUR tactic have done today?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The Dauphine has absolutely nothing to do with the stage today that you were complaining about.

It's all about the pattern. In any given race, any given team may chase a break or control attacks or whatever.

But when you have one of the biggest budget teams in the history of the sport going out and trying to control every single race, every single climb, every single flat stage, we are talking about something different.

How many actual attacks have Sky riders made this whole season? More or less than ten? Has any team been more boring? Even HTC only set out to make flat stages extra dull.

They, along with Orica and Liquigas made today an exciting stage.

The only exciting thing which happened today was a railway gate descending.

 

[Eusebio Kino]

139th and over 13 minutes down yesterday. He going for the stages and points.
HC uphill finish on Saturday and 2 HC climbs Sunday.

He will be in the laughing group on the thos days and 30 minutes down on GC.

He is clearly racing as a Sprinter now and there are few here to contest him.

OK, if your just talking Stage 5, tomorrow, was on about his future as a GT GC man?

Sagan is a stud, pure and simple. I believe he won a mountain stage in Suisse, sometime back,no? So much was said in the CNFORUM, about what an "easy" race the ToC 2012 was, slow speeds, no MTFs, bunch sprints, utter dominance in sprints by Sagan. Yet miraculously Sagan beats Farrar,in stage 3, a top pre-tour test. I see Sagans' future also as a classics man, who will likely develop into a big one week stage race winner,(PN, ToC, other less pointy races.) Sagan has Sean Kelly written all over himself. Eventually we will see how he will preform in 3 week GTs. We know this about Sagan, he knows how to win, and that my friends, is more important than shedding 20 kilos. Look for Sagan wearing green in Paris, late July.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Sagan is a stud, pure and simple. I believe he won a mountain stage in Suisse, sometime back,no? So much was said in the CNFORUM, about what an "easy" race the ToC 2012 was, slow speeds, no MTFs, bunch sprints, utter dominance in sprints by Sagan. Yet miraculously Sagan beats Farrar,in stage 3, a top pre-tour test.

I agree that Sagan is an amazing talent, obviously. But beating Farrar this season isn't proof of anything much - Farrar has consistently been terrible.

 

[Ferminal]

Yeh, much better than it would have been if they had given up after the train. Very high pace in the last 30km, I prefer that to the "managing" of the break we get on a normal day.

 

[hatcher]

It's all about the pattern. In any given race, any given team may chase a break or control attacks or whatever.

But when you have one of the biggest budget teams in the history of the sport going out and trying to control every single race, every single climb, every single flat stage, we are talking about something different.

How many actual attacks have Sky riders made this whole season? More or less than ten? Has any team been more boring? Even HTC only set out to make flat stages extra dull.



The only exciting thing which happened today was a railway gate descending.

So again nothing to do with today. Just a general dislike of Sky being aimed at something entirely irrelevant.

You may have missed it in my edit, so I'll ask again: What would your tactic have been today? Would you have sat up and quit after the level crossing?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

So again nothing to do with today. Just a general dislike of Sky being aimed at something entirely irrelevant.

No.

Sky - this season - have been the most boring team in professional cycling. Today, they did what they have sought to do in just about every stage of every race where they have a team even remotely capable of it - control things.

Judged on its own, with no reference to anything else, today wasn't a particularly egregious example. I'd rather the break had won, but it's hardly a big deal either way given that the stage wasn't expected to be exciting anyway. But only judging a stage on its own, without reference to the whole season and to team's general tactics would be silly. Liquigas were in large part responsible for making the Giro - the Giro of all races - boring. Sky have been even worse this season. They have sucked the excitement out of flat stages and climbing stages alike. And here, today, again, these were the two teams trying to control the break.

What would your tactic have been today? Would you have sat up and quit after the level crossing?

What Sky have been doing is perfectly rational. It was rational today because they weren't in the break and their second rate sprinter's inevitable loss to Sagan still represented their best shot. It is rational in general because they are a hugely expensively assembled team led primarily by sprinters and the type of GC man who has no acceleration. They don't attack. They don't go in breaks. Sucking the joy out of the sport is the obvious thing to do from their point of view. Just as resenting their tactic and hoping they fail is the obvious response from a fans perspective.

There's nothing irrational in disliking this season's version of Sky. I can think of no reason for anyone to like them bar knee-jerk nationalism or outright masochism. What other reason could a cycling fan have for cheering for grim predictability?

 

[hatcher]

Is there a reason you won't answer a direct question?

You said you were glad Sky lost today because of how they rode, so how would you have ridden it?