Tour of Utah, August 17-22

[sashimono]

ToU side note: I was curious to see how Andreu's strategy of "absolute agression" was going to play out. Team Kenda results: 7 DNF and a 56th place.

 

[BroDeal]

Winning the Settimana Lombarda at 19, I think you've shown to have at least some talent for stage racing, and certainly for climbing. Some winners of the last few years: Scarponi, Di Luca, Ricco, and Gesink (also at 19 years old, BTW).

You are right. Looking at your list it did show what path the riders would take. Armstrong fits in nicely with those three.

 

[*G*K*S*]

A fair point, though I certainly don't remember Lance winning or placing in such a mountainous stage race early in his career. Does anyone?

The Fitchburg Longsjo Classic? Is that the race held at the mind-bending altitude of 500 feet? Seriously.

Nobody said the guy didn't have results. He was WC in 1991. Just no results that would illustrate the climbing prowess needed for stage races (other than flat ones) that apparently Boswell has shown at 19.

1993. Gianni Bugno won in 1991.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Moose likes to think Lance never showed any stage race promise prior to his time with Ferrari.

First, I never said that, and now you're just being disingenuous.
Second, what major stage race results did Lance have by age 19? Fitchburg? Did you compare elevations between the two races?

 

[theyoungest]

First, I never said that, and now you're just being disingenuous.
Second, what major stage race results did Lance have by age 19? Fitchburg? Did you compare elevations between the two races?

He mentioned Lance won the Settimana Lombarda at age 19. Read up on it and you'll discover that's a serious stage race.

 

[BroDeal]

First, I never said that, and now you're just being disingenuous.
Second, what major stage race results did Lance have by age 19? Fitchburg? Did you compare elevations between the two races?

You have to realize that kurtdude is a 1999er and admitted that he never followed any cycling before Armstrong and he is not a cyclist. His knowledge comes from revisionists who have changed their views after Armstrong was successful with Dr. Ferrari, plus pouring over race stats to try to prove his point. Those of us who followed the sport back in the day saw that Armstrong had no capability of winning a GT. He did not climb nor time trial anywhere near the what was required--not even flashes of ability when competing against other pros in Europe.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He mentioned Lance won the Settimana Lombarda at age 19. Read up on it and you'll discover that's a serious stage race.

Back then it was Settimana Bergamasca and it was a pro-am race.
I don't know what the parcours was, so I have no idea whether it was flat or not. Maybe Kurt can help us out here.

Personally, I find it very impressive to see Boswell finishing behind LL and Mancebo at this type of race.

 

[kurtinsc]

Back then it was Settimana Bergamasca and it was a pro-am race.
I don't know what the parcours was, so I have no idea whether it was flat or not. Maybe Kurt can help us out here.

Personally, I find it very impressive to see Boswell finishing behind LL and Mancebo at this type of race.

So the fact that the winner the following year (Tonkov) went on to win the Giro d'Italia, and that winners from the 70's won or placed highly in the Giro doesn't lead you to believe it was probably at least on par with the Tour of Utah?

Okay... not sure what else I can say then.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

So the fact that the winner the following year (Tonkov) went on to win the Giro d'Italia, and that winners from the 70's won or placed highly in the Giro doesn't lead you to believe it was probably at least on par with the Tour of Utah?

Okay... not sure what else I can say then.

Armstrong won the Nevada City crit then placed 3rd in the Tour. Does that mean Nevada City is suddenly the bees' knees?

Is SB more prestigious than ToU? Of course! That's not the question. Do you know who raced the 1991 SB or the parcours? That would really help. I'm assuming you must know otherwise you wouldn't be so vehemently defending it.

 

[hrotha]

Back then it was Settimana Bergamasca and it was a pro-am race.
I don't know what the parcours was, so I have no idea whether it was flat or not. Maybe Kurt can help us out here.

Personally, I find it very impressive to see Boswell finishing behind LL and Mancebo at this type of race.

I doubt it wasn't hilly enough, honestly, considering the part of Italy where it takes place.
Take a look at the historical standings:
http://www.settimanaciclisticalombarda.com/programma/2010/AlbodOro.pdf

He won ahead of Fabio Bordonali and Wladimir Belli.

 

[kurtinsc]

Armstrong won the Nevada City crit then placed 3rd in the Tour. Does that mean Nevada City is suddenly the bees' knees?

Is SB more prestigious than ToU? Of course! That's not the question. Do you know who raced the 1991 SB or the parcours? That would really help. I'm assuming you must know otherwise you wouldn't be so vehemently defending it.

Basically, I'm assuming that because it's a mountainous race today and that successful mountain riders have won it in the past (both before and after Lance won) that it was likely a mountainous race when Lance won it at 19.

But honestly, if you want that level of detail for "proof"... then nothing's going to work for you. I dont' think we can find the parcours of many races from the early 90's today. I think it's very unlikely the race was flat, but whatever.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Basically, I'm assuming that because it's a mountainous race today and that successful mountain riders have won it in the past (both before and after Lance won) that it was likely a mountainous race when Lance won it at 19.

But honestly, if you want that level of detail for "proof"... then nothing's going to work for you. I dont' think we can find the parcours of many races from the early 90's today. I think it's very unlikely the race was flat, but whatever.

If I want more proof than your "assumptions" then "nothing's going to work" for me? That's your response?

Anyway, I'm just curious. I can show you how mountainous ToU is, and it's at elevation. Heck, you can see for yourself. I'm just wondering if you know what the profile was at SB.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Basically, I'm assuming that because it's a mountainous race today and that successful mountain riders have won it in the past (both before and after Lance won) that it was likely a mountainous race when Lance won it at 19.

But honestly, if you want that level of detail for "proof"... then nothing's going to work for you. I dont' think we can find the parcours of many races from the early 90's today. I think it's very unlikely the race was flat, but whatever.

Your assumption is wrong -hilly yes, mountainous, no - an on form climber by the name of Marco Pantani only finished 10th.

Going back to the TdU - has anyone more info on Lachlan Morton?

 

[kurtinsc]

If I want more proof than your "assumptions" then "nothing's going to work" for me? That's your response?

Anyway, I'm just curious. I can show you how mountainous ToU is, and it's at elevation. Heck, you can see for yourself. I'm just wondering if you know what the profile was at SB.

Seriously, stop.

It's a race in a mountainous region that currently has a mountainous profile where good climbers in the past have done well.

No, I don't have a 1991 profile of the stages. I also don't have a Dauphine Libere profile from 1991, but I'm betting you'd still give Luis Herrara some respect for winning it.

Honestly... how many races from 1991 can you find profiles for? Other then the GT's and monuments, I'm betting you'll struggle.


This is as stupid an argument as the people saying Lance is clean because "he never tested positive".

 

[kurtinsc]

Your assumption is wrong -hilly yes, mountainous, no - an on form climber by the name of Marco Pantani only finished 10th.

Going back to the TdU - has anyone more info on Lachlan Morton?

Do you have more detail? I haven't found anything listing places beyond 5th.

 

[kurtinsc]

Your assumption is wrong -hilly yes, mountainous, no - an on form climber by the name of Marco Pantani only finished 10th.

Going back to the TdU - has anyone more info on Lachlan Morton?

Also, was this 1991? The results I can find for Pantani back then were for the Baby Giro and nothing else... and the riders who finished with him in those races also placed well at the one Lance won. Belli looks like he had better results then Pantani in 1990/1991 from what I can see. Was he already the climber then that we saw later?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Also, was this 1991? The results I can find for Pantani back then were for the Baby Giro and nothing else... and the riders who finished with him in those races also placed well at the one Lance won. Belli looks like he had better results then Pantani in 1990/1991 from what I can see. Was he already the climber then that we saw later?

Settimana Bergamasca. 1991
1. Lance Armstrong (USA) 1,276km in 29h58'28" (42.570kmh)
2. Fabio Bordonali (Gis Ballan) a 1'35.
3. Wladimir Belli (Italia 1) a 2'30.
4. Nate Reiss (Subaru Montgomery Usa) a 2'31"
5. Roman Kreuziger (Austria) a 2'43"
6. Mariano Piccoli (Italia 2) a 3'02"
7. Massimo Zanoletti (Italia 2) a 3'13"
8. Maurizio Vandelli (Gis Ballan) a 3'31"
9. Massimo Podenzana (Italbonifica Navigare) a 4'14"
10. Marco Pantani (Italia 2) a 5'38"

If you wish to continue to discuss LA, then bring it up on the LA thread.


Does anyone have more info on Lachlan Morton?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Does anyone have more info on Lachlan Morton?

Check out his TT position. Very aero. Is this kid only 17?!? Hard to believe.

 

[Angliru]

Settimana Bergamasca. 1991
1. Lance Armstrong (USA) 1,276km in 29h58'28" (42.570kmh)
2. Fabio Bordonali (Gis Ballan) a 1'35.
3. Wladimir Belli (Italia 1) a 2'30.
4. Nate Reiss (Subaru Montgomery Usa) a 2'31"
5. Roman Kreuziger (Austria) a 2'43"
6. Mariano Piccoli (Italia 2) a 3'02"
7. Massimo Zanoletti (Italia 2) a 3'13"
8. Maurizio Vandelli (Gis Ballan) a 3'31"
9. Massimo Podenzana (Italbonifica Navigare) a 4'14"
10. Marco Pantani (Italia 2) a 5'38"

If you wish to continue to discuss LA, then bring it up on the LA thread.


Does anyone have more info on Lachlan Morton?

Is that Liquigas' Kreuziger's dad?