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Triathlon

Dec 13, 2012
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Thought a general triathlon thread was needed in the clinic. Any other triathletes/triathlon fans in the clinic? Obviously there will be doping in triathlon. However in Ironman racing, particularly at Ironman Hawaii, the times have not come down in the way that they have in pro-cycling.

Discuss.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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SundayRider said:
Thought a general triathlon thread was needed in the clinic. Any other triathletes/triathlon fans in the clinic? Obviously there will be doping in triathlon. However in Ironman racing, particularly at Ironman Hawaii, the times have not come down in the way that they have in pro-cycling.

Discuss.
did not the Kona times come down by an hour around a decade ago. They may have plateaued since then, but you compare it to the 90s and Riis and Pantani and the records...

so, cyclings best times, were closer to two decades ago, than one decade ago
 
Aug 27, 2012
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SundayRider said:
However in Ironman racing, particularly at Ironman Hawaii, the times have not come down in the way that they have in pro-cycling.

Not wanting to stimulate unnecessary Triathlon discussion, but times have been down in triathlon since the 80's hey days of Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Scott Tinley, etc. How much more EPO can the body manage before blood turns to syrup...
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Tinman said:
Not wanting to stimulate unnecessary Triathlon discussion, but times have been down in triathlon since the 80's hey days of Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Scott Tinley, etc. How much more EPO can the body manage before blood turns to syrup...

Mark Allen run course record still stands as far as I can recall and his best overall time is very close to the times generally recorded today. The bike technology also makes a massive difference in a race that long in which you are riding solo.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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blackcat said:
did not the Kona times come down by an hour around a decade ago. They may have plateaued since then, but you compare it to the 90s and Riis and Pantani and the records...

so, cyclings best times, were closer to two decades ago, than one decade ago

The Ironman times look more 'normal' to me. Some of the times they run in the 10K Oly distance races are insane.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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SundayRider said:
Mark Allen run course record still stands as far as I can recall and his best overall time is very close to the times generally recorded today. The bike technology also makes a massive difference in a race that long in which you are riding solo.
I just checked the times from the past 3 decades, they brought it down in the late 80s and it oscillates ~15 either side , i assume, pending conditions.


theory why? I assume that O2 vector doping, is not a major benefit in comparison to marathon, olympic distance tri, and cycling, because of an 8 hour race, body weight supporting 30mile marathon after the swim, after the ride.

unlike a kenyan runner, a triathlon ironman distance, needs to carry around ~10lbs of extra upper torso muscle.

yeah anyway, i was wrong
 
SundayRider said:
The Ironman times look more 'normal' to me. Some of the times they run in the 10K Oly distance races are insane.

Believe none of them! Courses are not accurately measured.

For info, I think A Brownlee's 10000m best is 28:30 or thereabouts. Anything below 27 is top top class, anything below 26:40ish is other-worldly.

I don't know much about swimming but understand the Brownlees were training with Sky in Majorca over the winter. They can live with sub-elite runners and I suspect they could live with sub-elite cyclists (where elite = pro-conti and above). They're very very good in all three sports, but not top class. That's triathlon. If you put it all together, I don't see anything suspicious in what they do it what is still a relatively immature sport at the highest level.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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simoni said:
Believe none of them! Courses are not accurately measured.

For info, I think A Brownlee's 10000m best is 28:30 or thereabouts. Anything below 27 is top top class, anything below 26:40ish is other-worldly.

I don't know much about swimming but understand the Brownlees were training with Sky in Majorca over the winter. They can live with sub-elite runners and I suspect they could live with sub-elite cyclists (where elite = pro-conti and above). They're very very good in all three sports, but not top class. That's triathlon. If you put it all together, I don't see anything suspicious in what they do it what is still a relatively immature sport at the highest level.
those brothers to me, look like the could pretty quickly reach olympic status in all three disciplines if they wished to take a full program.

1500 swimming, liege/hilly on day, and marathon. I think they could make the Oly qualifying times
 
Dec 13, 2012
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blackcat said:
those brothers to me, look like the could pretty quickly reach olympic status in all three disciplines if they wished to take a full program.

1500 swimming, liege/hilly on day, and marathon. I think they could make the Oly qualifying times

Not sure about swim/run but I'll be there is quite a lot of triathletes (particularly the Ironman pros) who could easily be domestiques/pack fill in pro cycling. I think at the top end they average around or just under 300 watts for an Ironman bike leg.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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SundayRider said:
Not sure about swim/run but I'll be there is quite a lot of triathletes (particularly the Ironman pros) who could easily be domestiques/pack fill in pro cycling. I think at the top end they average around or just under 300 watts for an Ironman bike leg.
tho, the Versace wearing british world champ in olympic distance in about 94 95, Spencer Smith, he of the massive quads like Greipel or Bos. he tried to be a pro with Linda Mac in about 97 or 98. bloody hopeless
 
blackcat said:
tho, the Versace wearing british world champ in olympic distance in about 94 95, Spencer Smith, he of the massive quads like Greipel or Bos. he tried to be a pro with Linda Mac in about 97 or 98. bloody hopeless

Look at guys like Chris Lieto, Normann Stadler and Chris McCormack - the guys who upped the stakes on the bike because they weren't able to run low 28 mins off the bike. They would have been ok Rouleur/Classics riders had they focused purely on the bike IMO
 
Feb 19, 2014
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very little testing at the ironman level, and racers who suddenly have magical performances at kona. I would say there is doping. Most tri fanatics say their sport is clean because there isn't enough money in the pro ranks
 
unamused said:
Most tri fanatics say their sport is clean because there isn't enough money in the pro ranks

Again, it doesn't take much money compared to what they are already spending on equipment to have meaningful improvements in recovery all the while never testing positive.

At this point, even EPO is not expensive, but a pretty tough test to pass unless you hide from surprise testing like Hincapie and his pals. You just need a couple of days to test non-positive. And then it kicks in!
 
There is probably about as much doping as there would be in something like Master's Cycling.


I enjoy doing the Odd Tri.

Watching an ironman as a competition* doesn't appeal.




*being on the support team for my wife's cousin is a different matter.
 
Mar 27, 2014
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There is obviously drugs in triathlon

There are numerous cases of the pros in triathlon admitting to using PED's and that is in the 80', 90's and into the present day, A number of Hawaii winners have come back later to confess due to not wanting to live with the guilt.
There are also the classic tell tale signs as there are in cycling of sudden gastric issues, and amazing performances and crashes.
Also there are a number of athletes who have gone off and completed back to back incredible performances in winning ironman distance events one or two weeks apart which is frankly ludicrous for anyone not on the gear.
There are also a couple of coaches who are clearly suspicious for numerous reasons (ex greyhound and racehorse trainers)
And then you have the uber bikers as mentioned like Stadler who used to train and was sponsored by the same group as the T mobile team in Jan ullrichs time.

So in short yes there are drugs in Triathlon
In the short course probably not as much these days
In Ironman - hell yes and probably more in the age group ranks than the pro's if they dug deep enough.
The number of age groupers with jobs sitting on their butts 60 hours a week who suddenly turn up and get within 10% of the pro's is quite astounding

Also don't forget as Ironman is not an olympic sport WADA testing and out of competition is going to be pretty rare.

I was married to a pro triathlete and she was never tested - even after winning olympic distance world championships as an age grouper multiple top ten performances at ironman's around the world and at hawaii. Not once in or out of competition was she tested.

If you look hard enough on the web there are plenty of forums with triathletes comparing training regimes and even clubbing together to buy centrifuges for a group of them in one area. Or discussing which doctors will prescribe what for what price.

It is blatant
 
ralphbert said:
How can you tell someone competes in triathlon? Wait 2 minutes, they will tell you.

No matter how many times or variations I hear this joke, I still giggle at it.

As it is completely true.

One of my wife's co workers is the prime example.

I know her first name, what job she does, and the fact she has now completed 2 ironman tri's. (I was told the times, but pretty much instantly forgot them)

Literally nothing else. I don't know if she is married, has kids anything.
 
Dec 13, 2012
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Catwhoorg said:
No matter how many times or variations I hear this joke, I still giggle at it.

As it is completely true.

One of my wife's co workers is the prime example.

I know her first name, what job she does, and the fact she has now completed 2 ironman tri's. (I was told the times, but pretty much instantly forgot them)

Literally nothing else. I don't know if she is married, has kids anything.

Not done Ironman myself but have known it to totally take over some peoples lives. Some do nearly as many hours training as they do hours in their jobs.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Catwhoorg said:
No matter how many times or variations I hear this joke, I still giggle at it.

As it is completely true.

One of my wife's co workers is the prime example.

I know her first name, what job she does, and the fact she has now completed 2 ironman tri's. (I was told the times, but pretty much instantly forgot them)

Literally nothing else. I don't know if she is married, has kids anything.
vegetarian.

better still. vegan
 
ralphbert said:
How can you tell someone competes in triathlon? Wait 2 minutes, they will tell you.

That and this type of behaviour:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/Impatience_is_certainly_not_cool_4461.html

Outstanding!

It is obvious that most of us are competitive by nature and not just in sports, but there is a time and place for that. At a race carbo loading dinner there is no need to race for the food items or the utensils - there is usually plenty of either. The crew of Endurance Conspiracy accidentally captured 2 athletes wrestling for the pasta spoon as they were filming the general setup of the Challenge Roth carbo loading dinner last night, and then one of these two athletes took an alternative path. Notice the surprised look on the faces of the folks behind the guy who ended up with the pasta spoon.

You can take your time at the pasta meal, you are not being timed. So do not put your hands in a food dish - it is not cool and is actually disgusting. Plus no one wants to see that.
 

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