Tyler Hamilton confessions/accusations

[D-Queued]

Purely speculation, but by specifically naming Armstrong (among others of course, but obviously Armstrong is the big cheese) so publicly without having substantive material to back up their allegations, you'd think they'd just be setting themselves up for libel/slander suits from the Armstrong crowd. Which makes me wonder if they've come forth knowing that they're back is protected, ie they know that there is substantive material that can be produced to back up their claims? And does Armstrong know it too (or at least suspect it), which is why he's not going after them legally?

Who says that there is no substantive material?

A simple calendar, diary, plane ticket, parking ticket, or cafe receipt can all substantiate a lot.

We already have faxes from Haven to Fuentes. What if there were a cancelled check or two with Ferrari?

Aside from which, the eyewitness testimony is far more substantiating than any single piece of evidence. The eyewitness can tell us what really happened.

The eyewitness can explain how the EPO got in the pee that got in the vial.

'I saw Lance inject during the Tour on Day X, Y and Z.'

We have the eyewitness testimony that removes any doubt about the source of the EPO. Not just reasonable doubt, but any dought.

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

Wow!

When you take the high road, it puts an infinite distance between you and those pursuing the low road.

This has further illustrated what a complete and classless SOB Armstrong is with the Eki tweet.

How will Lance and Fabiani spin this? Tyler lied so he could give up his medal?

Right.

Dave.

That's a bit much. Tyler told the truth to avoid a perjury rap. He's not "taking the high road," he's taking the only reasonable course available to him.

 

[VeloCity]

That's a bit much. Tyler told the truth to avoid a perjury rap. He's not "taking the high road," he's taking the only reasonable course available to him.

He didn't have to voluntarily surrender his medal yet he did. I'd say that qualifies as taking the high road.

 

[stephens]

We have the eyewitness testimony that removes any doubt about the source of the EPO. Not just reasonable doubt, but any dought.

It's just a little less solid when those witnesses have previously testified that no such thing ever took place.

Even though we are 99.99% sure they were lying then, that doesn't mean they are telling the truth now. If we think like a defense lawyer and a potential juror, the previous lie just tells us they are capable of lying and so it's possible they are lying now. What would be the motivation? I'm not sure one needs to be shown.

We shouldn't let our conviction that Lance used EPO or Blood cloud our judgement of whether Tyler and Floyd are actually telling the truth about seeing him use it on X, Y, Z occasion. I don't trust either of those guys to tell the truth about anything.

In other words, it's not unreasonable to believe both the following:

Lance used EPO and/or Blood
Tyler and Flyod are lying about witnessing it

 

[D-Queued]

That's a bit much. Tyler told the truth to avoid a perjury rap. He's not "taking the high road," he's taking the only reasonable course available to him.

Perjury?



Who was going after him for perjury? For what testimony?

ROTFLMAO.

Dave.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

The UCI will be the one's determining whether or not Armstrong keeps his Tour titles, not USADA.

No, they will not.
USADA are independent of the UCI (& ASO) so they can choose to open their own investigation and whatever sanctions they wish under the WADA code. UCI can choose to appeal it to WADA if they disagree.
I really don't see the UCI going up against USADA who are right there sitting in with the Feds.

The UCI will be forced to accept any sanction that USADA imposes.

 

[Polyarmour]

Polya, straight up question. Do you believe Lance doped?

Yes

Just want to see better evidence before he is burnt at the stake.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Actually, he didn't give up his most prized possession. He just exchanged his gold medal for it. Tyler's got his dignity back.

Absolutely.

Someone mentioned up-thread before it was known TH had returned the medal that it was something he would not give up.
But after all he has been through over the last few years it weighed heavily around his neck.

I am delighted for TH that he has handed it back - it turns the page to a new chapter in his life.

 

[tofino]

More than Tyler & one question not asked

From the boulderreport

http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2011/05/20/believe-tyler/

The 60 Minutes season finale is Sunday and rumors have held for months that the show was working on a long and detailed Armstrong segment.

They don’t have just Hamilton, or even just Hamilton and Andreu, although sources we spoke with had no information on who else might have spoken with the reporters and producers on the project.

On a side note. I would have been funny if 60 minutes asked Tyler if he regrets not reading the name on the blood bag more closely!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes

Just want to see better evidence before he is burnt at the stake.

Is he being burnt at the stake?? No.

He is a doper - and when you get caught you receive a sanction and have those results taken. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[stephens]

It's nice to hear that I can lie, cheat, and steal my way through life and then get my dignity back as long as I admit some of it and then take down my teammate with me. It reminds me of why so many people find christianity attractive - it allows scewups to feel good about themselves again by just speaking a few words. I'll reserve my praise for those managed to go through life without screwing people over.

 

[Jagers]

Anyone seen this from Business Insider?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's nice to hear that I can lie, cheat, and steal my way through life and then get my dignity back as long as I admit some of it and then take down my teammate with me. It reminds me of why so many people find christianity attractive - it allows scewups to feel good about themselves again by just speaking a few words. I'll reserve my praise for those managed to go through life without screwing people over.

Wow - and there was me thinking you believed in miracles.

I am delighted to hear you have led such a wondrous life and never screwed up.
As for Tyler - yes, he can get some dignity back - because unlike Armstrong, he had some to begin with.

 

[Pantani_lives]

Armstrong wanted to go down in history as the biggest TdF rider ever, but maybe he will instead be remembered as the biggest doper in history, worse than Ben Johnson.

I think there shouldn't be a TdF winner for the period 1999-2005.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

That's a bit much. Tyler told the truth to avoid a perjury rap.

Perjury for what? And even if he were selectable to perjury for testifying, it would mean he believes everyone else testified that there was widespread doping.

Perjury is also a legal ramification, and has little to nothing to do with giving his gold medal back. He could be convicted of perjury in court, but it's separate from USADA, the UCI or IOC's decisions.

In other words, it's not unreasonable to believe both the following:

Lance used EPO and/or Blood
Tyler and Flyod are lying about witnessing it

It's not. But why then would Tyler and Floyd lie? One would have to believe their motivations would be ulterior, so ulterior that they would validate any guilt that damaged their reputations in the first place in order to attain it.

One would have to ask themselves: Would Tyler really want to damage his former best friend Lance so badly for no known reason, that he'd not only admit his entire career was a fraud, but give up a lot of potential future business as a coach and trainer, plus give up an Olympic gold medal in order to do so?

 

[ManInFull]

From the boulderreport

On a side note. I would have been funny if 60 minutes asked Tyler if he regrets not reading the name on the blood bag more closely!

Oh, did he admit that he ended up with someone else's blood because he simply didn't pay attention to the name on the bag??

 

[Boeing]

IMHO tyler giving back the Gold voluntarily puts his credibility at a whole new level and sets a new benchmark.

this is a significant act and could come to resonate as a turning point in this whole cycling drug debacle. it's a boost to his public persona and could turn the table on public opinion.

In some respects he is speaking for a whole generation of pro cycling

major props

Now tyler can look us all in the eye if and when we shake his hand

He might even be employable now

word

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Anyone seen this from Business Insider?

Good link there Jagers. Worth a read.

 

[andy1234]

It's nice to hear that I can lie, cheat, and steal my way through life and then get my dignity back as long as I admit some of it and then take down my teammate with me. It reminds me of why so many people find christianity attractive - it allows scewups to feel good about themselves again by just speaking a few words. I'll reserve my praise for those managed to go through life without screwing people over.

+1
I suspect there are many on here that would forgive almost anyone if their confession harmed Armstrong.


Armstrong, Landis and Hamilton should be treated with contempt in equal measure.

 

[Race Radio]

It's nice to hear that I can lie, cheat, and steal my way through life and then get my dignity back as long as I admit some of it and then take down my teammate with me. It reminds me of why so many people find christianity attractive - it allows scewups to feel good about themselves again by just speaking a few words. I'll reserve my praise for those managed to go through life without screwing people over.

Like Armstrong?

 

[MarkvW]

Perjury for what? And even if he were selectable to perjury for testifying, it would mean he believes everyone else testified that there was widespread doping.

Perjury is also a legal ramification, and has little to nothing to do with giving his gold medal back. He could be convicted of perjury in court, but it's separate from USADA, the UCI or IOC's decisions.


It's not. But why then would Tyler and Floyd lie? One would have to believe their motivations would be ulterior, so ulterior that they would validate any guilt that damaged their reputations in the first place in order to attain it.

One would have to ask themselves: Would Tyler really want to damage his former best friend Lance so badly for no known reason, that he'd not only admit his entire career was a fraud, but give up a lot of potential future business as a coach and trainer, plus give up an Olympic gold medal in order to do so?

Whoa! I was only commenting on the overpraising of Tyler. He did the right thing.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

Actually, he didn't give up his most prized possession. He just exchanged his gold medal for it. Tyler's got his dignity back.

It's funny people are praising Hamilton for turning on Armstrong.

The ONLY reason why he confessed was because he was put before a grand jury.


There are NO heroes. Zero.

After Armstrong goes down, let's get Indurain.

 

[ferryman]

It's just a little less solid when those witnesses have previously testified that no such thing ever took place.

Even though we are 99.99% sure they were lying then, that doesn't mean they are telling the truth now. If we think like a defense lawyer and a potential juror, the previous lie just tells us they are capable of lying and so it's possible they are lying now. What would be the motivation? I'm not sure one needs to be shown.

We shouldn't let our conviction that Lance used EPO or Blood cloud our judgement of whether Tyler and Floyd are actually telling the truth about seeing him use it on X, Y, Z occasion. I don't trust either of those guys to tell the truth about anything.

In other words, it's not unreasonable to believe both the following:

Lance used EPO and/or Blood
Tyler and Flyod are lying about witnessing it

Tweaked that for you:

In other words, it's very reasonable to believe both the following:

Lance used EPO and Blood
Tyler and Flyod are not lying about witnessing it[/QUOTE] Because they told the truth under oath for obvious reasons

 

[dancing on pedals]

sorrry this is a bit off topic but
Tyler hamilton recieved an 8 year ban from cycle racing but is now a cycling coach!
How can a man who is banned from cycle racing be allowed to train people for cycle racing?
the lunatics are running the asylum.
I am no Armstrong supporter but if you really look at the key witnesses so far they lack any credibatility, other than the last confession (and they have both spent a lot and raised public funds to support thier innocence, which has now been denied)

Tyler Hamilton has always been a liar ( the pain was so bad i ground my teeth down) (i;ve got a broken collar bone) i spoke to him in Darlington and he is a real nice guy- but i think the Armstrong defence team (if it came to that) would make mincemeat out of him,
He has run public campaigns for his innocence wnich he now rejects so lets see him pay the money he took dishonestly from cycling fans back before he does any thing else.
and hand his medal in
thanks

 

[flicker]

Wow!

When you take the high road, it puts an infinite distance between you and those pursuing the low road.

This has further illustrated what a complete and classless SOB Armstrong is with the Eki tweet.

How will Lance and Fabiani spin this? Tyler lied so he could give up his medal?

Right.

Dave.

Moderator, please address the above. Off topic, hatred.