UCI appeals Contador decision

[roundabout]

it's arbitration both parties get to appoint one arbitrator

 

[python]

How come AC get's to "choose" anybody in the first place?
What's that all about?

you may have missed it.. it was in several articles.

it's very simply following the cas's owm procedure as to how the 3 arbitrators get selected.

there are total about 200 names on the cas list. the appellant(s) chooses one and the defendant chooses one. then, the two 'chosen' propose the 3 arbitrator as the typical cas panels consists of 3 persons. that 3d person is also usually the chairperson of the panel. they also have to settle on the language of the proceedings - french or english.

 

[sniper]

you may have missed it.. it was in several articles.

it's very simply following the cas's owm procedure as to how the 3 arbitrators get selected.

there are total about 200 names on the cas list. the appellant(s) chooses one and the defendant chooses one. then, the two 'chosen' propose the 3 arbitrator as the typical cas panels consists of 3 persons. that 3d person is also usually the chairperson of the panel. they also have to settle on the language of the proceedings - french or english.

Tanx python, much appreciated.

Odd procedure, if you ask me. Opens the door to major league bribing etc.

Anyway, does AC's choice make sense to anybody?

 

[python]

Tanx python, much appreciated.

Odd procedure, if you ask me. Opens the door to major league bribing etc.

Anyway, does AC's choice make sense to anybody?

you understand that ac has as much to do with the choice as you and i

it's his legal team's and more importantly, the rfec's choice. bert is just a collective name they all represent.

that being said, contador's choice is very intriguing. the professor was presiding over a panel (there were two separate panels) that ruled against rfec and valverde.

to add more oil to the fire, the 2nd arbitrator - quentin byrne-sutton - the one appointed by the uci was also involved previously into the.... anti-UCI decision, again concerning val verde.

this spectacle promises to be fun

 

[hrotha]

This only makes sense if you assume it's all a farce and all parties have already agreed on a decision.

 

[Merckx index]

that being said, contador's choice is very intriguing. the professor was presiding over a panel (there were two separate panels) that ruled against rfec and valverde.

Without knowing anything about this guy and his inclinations, the one possible advantage I can see for Bert here is that if he actually does get cleared, having this guy's vote will add to the credibility of the decision. It seems that he can't be regarded as in Bert's pocket.

 

[sniper]

This only makes sense if you assume it's all a farce and all parties have already agreed on a decision.

intuitively, I was indeed thinking in that direction.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Lots of people who hate excellence here. Alberto was framed by a Spanish cow.

 

[python]

smart move

here are some more interesting facts about the contador’s choice - professor haas

(i)valverde’s lawyers unsuccessfully tried to block haas’s nomination
comment: their motive was that haas is prejudiced since he was employed by wada. don’t know about the former but the latter is an absolute true - haas did work with/for wada in many capacities.

(ii)at one time haas was a member of the german anti-doping agency
comment: in and of itself this is not a significant factoid except it means he personally knows the cream of the crop of german wada scientists who campaigned AGAINST the current wada clenbuterol rules and who took personal charge in acquitting ovchrarov

(iii)he took part in (at least) two clenbuterol cases including the infamous american swimmer, j. hardy’s
comment: he voted for sanctions but in hardy’s case it was only one year and in another case it was the chinese clenbuterol story that he completely rejected.

If you ask me, haas is a smart choice indeed.

You could hardly find a more competent and credible arbiter.

 

[Paco_P]

Lots of people who hate excellence here. Alberto was framed by a Spanish cow.

Wasn't it a Navarran cow?

 

[icefire]

here are some more interesting facts about the contador’s choice - professor haas

....

You could hardly find a more competent and credible arbiter.

Python, there's another fact that you seemed to suggest in an earlier post but I haven't seen discussed in detail:

Didn't Prof Haas rule against UCI when UCI tried to ban Valverde in the Worlds of Stuttgart 2007?

 

[python]

Python, there's another fact that you seemed to suggest in an earlier post but I haven't seen discussed in detail:

Didn't Prof Haas rule against UCI when UCI tried to ban Valverde in the Worlds of Stuttgart 2007?

that was the uci's/wada choice for this arbitration panel - quentin byrne-sutton. he was the sole decision-maker then

that's what makes this hearing so freaking interesting - both arbitrators at one point ruled AGAIST the parties that chose them.

 

[icefire]

The third member of the arbitration panel has already been designated: Efraim Barak

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2011/04/27/ciclismo/1303907839.html

He has his profile on LinkedIn:

http://il.linkedin.com/pub/efraim-barak/15/284/877

Interestingly, he has some connections to Spain and other Spanish speaking countries.

 

[python]

wada and uci appeals are separate

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...CI-doping-appeals-to-CAS-remain-separate.aspx

in my view this could be significant in terms of potential new evidence brought forward.

 

[Benotti69]

wada and uci appeals are separate

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8...CI-doping-appeals-to-CAS-remain-separate.aspx

in my view this could be significant in terms of potential new evidence brought forward.

does this mean CAS will look at each appeal separately and can not consider the evidence as a whole when making a decision on each appeal?

 

[sniper]

I guess that, for one thing, the separate appeal means that WADA's appeal will not be easily dismissed on technicalities due to UCI's procedural errors.

 

[python]

does this mean CAS will look at each appeal separately and can not consider the evidence as a whole when making a decision on each appeal?

if i was to interpret this on the basis of other cas rulings that i read over the years, it means that the two appealing parties (the uci and wada) are making their case in separate submittals. their arguments and evidence supplement each other rather than being identical.

cas will look at ALL evidence when making a decision.

for example, if (understand this is a hypothetical) the plasticizer test results are introduced by WADA (which the uci already said it will not pursue). then, contador's lawyers have to provide a rebuttal and the panel will have to judge on the relevance and substance of the arguments.

separate appeals, in my non-lawyer mind, make it a little more difficult for contador because they need to come up with new arguments rather than operate with those already accepted by rfec's disciplinary panel.

btw, it looks like the proceeding will be in english (not french) since barak does not speak french.

 

[Benotti69]

if i was to interpret this on the basis of other cas rulings that i read over the years, it means that the two appealing parties (the uci and wada) are making their case in separate submittals. their arguments and evidence supplement each other rather than being identical.

cas will look at ALL evidence when making a decision.

So they listen to both appeals then deliberate and come to a decision based on what they have heard in both appeals

for example, if (understand this is a hypothetical) the plasticizer test results are introduced by WADA (which the uci already said it will not pursue). then, contador's lawyers have to provide a rebuttal and the panel will have to judge on the relevance and substance of the arguments.

separate appeals, in my non-lawyer mind, make it a little more difficult for contador because they need to come up with new arguments rather than operate with those already accepted by rfec's disciplinary panel.

btw, it looks like the proceeding will be in english (not french) since barak does not speak french.

Just for the Clinic.

 

[python]

So they listen to both appeals then deliberate and come to a decision based on what they have heard in both appeals

yep. pretty much.

having followed all published developments, my gut feeling is that the main (but not only) difference between wada and the uci argumentation will be all sort of issues around the possibility of blood transfusion - don't know if the plasticicers will be brought up (not likely imo) but the blood experts of conti (like mr banfi) are for a stiff fight.

Just for the Clinic.

it would be fun but cas isn't as leaky as the uci. we may even NOT be treated to a public ruling as cas occasionally (like in pelli's case) does not publish them. usually due to one of the party's insistence.

btw, i looked up barak's cas record. it's rather poor with regard to doping appeals. very few. he mostly dealt with football contract issues and NEVER sat on a clenbuterol case.

the fun fact is that barak almost became conti's chocen arbitrator in stead of haas.

 

[flicker]

funny comment from todays Contador VN article.


redlantern10 52 minutes ago
Saxo-Bank Sunguard has officially branched off into a new line of business - agriculture. They have secured 1,500 acres of land in an undisclosed location for the purpose of raising crops and livestock to generate their own food supply that is free of all unwanted performance enhancing drugs or other harmful chemicals. The site is supposed to be certified organic - fertilizer for the crops is all-natural, apparently coming from all the crap that has been coming out of confirmed dopers defense teams mouths.

Reportedly, there are various security measures taken to prevent unwanted visitors, saboteurs and the media. The sponsor is particularly interested in preventing "food-spikers" from penetrating their defenses. Apparently, they have employed a number of motion detectors, razor wire fences, and guard dogs. There are even rumors of sniper outposts being placed in various locations not visible to the naked eye and staffed with various mercenaries and retired military personnel - all of whom have orders to "shoot to kill". This is all done in order to protect the integrity of the food supply. One Saxo-Bank source states " With a protected food source, we will no longer have to concern ourselves with the plastic, asthmatic cows which have apparently been smuggled in from China - should someone once again try to feed us some of that contaminated Spanish beef, we will be prepared"

Sarcasm aside - how do you eat your "team's food" exclusively? Do they have a screening process and testers like those that ate a King's food in days of yore? That nice little ambiguous term of "team's food" is wonderful publicity, but sounds extremely stupid when you think about how something ultimately became "team food".

 

[Cloxxki]

Sarcasm aside - how do you eat your "team's food" exclusively? Do they have a screening process and testers like those that ate a King's food in days of yore? That nice little ambiguous term of "team's food" is wonderful publicity, but sounds extremely stupid when you think about how something ultimately became "team food".

Yeah, if I were a doper I'd not want to be on that team. One big excuse group is taken from you even before you dope.
So much trouble, just to influence CAS and public opinion, for one time?

 

[hrotha]

According to As, the TAS hearing has been postponed to mid July-early September, get this, because Contador's lawyers have requested it. They want more time to get their defense ready. Or maybe they just want Contador to ride the Tour.

Next time someone complains about the matter taking forever, let's bear in mind who's to blame: Contador, the UCI and the RFEC. They're all on the same boat.

 

[L'arriviste]

According to As, the TAS hearing has been postponed to mid July-early September, get this, because Contador's lawyers have requested it. They want more time to get their defense ready. Or maybe they just want Contador to ride the Tour.

Next time someone complains about the matter taking forever, let's bear in mind who's to blame: Contador, the UCI and the RFEC. They're all on the same boat.

Yes indeed. But they're each rowing in different directions.

 

[Sophistic]

Could Prudhomme keep Contador from the Tour without a verdict?

 

[just some guy]

Could Prudhomme keep Contador from the Tour without a verdict?

He could try but then that would go to CAS as well.