UCI Discriminates against "smaller races"

[nmwildog]

I can't believe all the uninformed mindless prattle going on here, no wonder I try to avoid this kind of forum where anyone can express their opinion despite the fact they don't have a clue what they are talking about. All I can say is I've been either racing or helping promote the Tour of the Gila for 23 years and having pro tour riders here has been NOTHING but a huge boost for the race and our chances of continuing sponsorship in the future. Not one person in the pro field who is actually here racing has expressed ANY sentiment that they thought these riders shouldn't be competing against them, or that they shouldn't be allowed to race in such a "piddly" race. I bet if most of you whiners came here you'd be lucky to finish the first stage. What a disrespect to the US domestic teams to think that just because some riders from a bigger, stronger team show up they won't have a chance to compete.
Yesterday the Tour of the Gila was on Spanish TV, in 23 years of racing in our small town in the middle of nowhere, with winners who have had many years of success in pro racing at the top level, including riders who have had wins in numerous top level European races, few outside the US cycling community have ever heard of our race, now it is known world wide.
To pretend that this kind of thing is not good for our race or US racing in general is clear evidence of bias that will not face reality.
Most of the comments about the "unfairness" of their being allowed to ride here shows a complete lack of understanding of both the racing scene in the US, and the difference between the US racing scene and that in Europe.
If the so called "upper echelon" US teams were prevented from racing in National level events their would be almost no races in the US for them to compete in. What incentive is there for a Continental team to upgrade to Professional Continental status if they are prohibited from racing almost every event in their home country and are forced to send teams overseas for over 95% of their racing program? Do any of you guys spouting off your mouths even know the difference between a Continental team and a Professional Continental team? Do any of you know how many of each are licensed in the US?
All I can say is everyone in Silver City at this years Tour of the Gila that I have spoken too is extremely pleased to have the high quality field we have this year. All this negative talk is coming from people who haven't got a clue what they are talking about but are still plenty willing to express their uninformed and generally useless opinions to the world at large. Keep on whinging you nongs, you are what is wrong with this sport.

 

[krebs303]

I would rather lose to lance and levi on the road than read that I am not worthy to be on the road with them. Racers rise to the level of competition. If you never race against adversity you while be doomed to stay the same level.
Some told me once if you want to ride at 30mph, you have to go out and ride 30mph.
I was a lance fan before the comeback. But I would have preferred he come back to triathlon. Can you picture him on he Queen K Highway doing 112 mile bike then running a marathon.

WildflowerTri is online live today. 3 races to watch today.

yeah I am more of a tri guy. better than mid-pack swimmer. fair cyclist (at 6'8" and 235lbs its hard to be aero) my name and running are never used in the same sentence. I was passed by a double above the knee amputee in the run.
How does he pedal the bike?

 

[Master50]

I can't believe all the uninformed mindless prattle going on here, no wonder I try to avoid this kind of forum where anyone can express their opinion despite the fact they don't have a clue what they are talking about. QUOTE]

Hey Dog
This is how to win the hearts and minds of the denizens here? Insult the forumites and tell us what idiots we are? Come on You have been working 1 race for 23 years and that makes you an expert. I too have been working in the sport for about that long and have worked events like the tour of California and worked races in Qatar, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Brazil, USA, England, and Canada so if it is perspective you want I have some. Most of my arguments are generic when speaking about the intent of the rules and I do have to make 1 very important concession to your condescending and insulting diatribe.
Euro Racing is not Racing anywhere else. True that the rule enforced for your event had more to do with the profile of LA than anything else. I think I also agree that these rules don't really recognize the realities of cycling outside of Europe but they do recognize that there are issues with big powerful and well funded teams competing in smaller events. Any system has pro and cons. Perhaps if more organizers had the eligibility rules strictly enforced they might retract and others might upgrade. You make a lot of good points but your insulting approach at making your point did more to avoid reading it that to hear any salient argument for them.
Maybe you don't or have not heard complaints from riders but I have. I will grant you that the complaints don't usually come from Pros but from amateur riders.
In many of the past few years a very powerful Continental Pro team (as compared to most of the local scene) has dominated the bigger races and taken the lion's share of the prize money and glory. It has done little to improve the fields and frankly I hear a lot of the cat 1 and 2 riders pass on events when the big boys come to play. It does demonstrate where the local guys really need to be but most 1 and 2 riders work full time and the pros work part time or not at all.
I have not been to Gila and unless it were to become a UCI event I probably won't come to see your event. I do however agree that there needs to be some work on the eligibility rules that better consider events outside Europe but the rule needs to still be there in some form or it will allow sandbagging to run rampant. Frankly the only real positive thing I am seeing is that Lance is riding hard for someone else and that Zirbel is probably going to get a better contract next year. The damage is not to the guys at the top of the GC. They are fine with the big dogs coming. The guys at the bottom of gc might be a little better off if Mellow was in Europe racing there. Competitive people do love to push their limits but there is always a breaking point. Maybe the next time you post here you can the attitude and make a civil argument. That really is what a forum is for. Argue = good, insult=bad

 

[SpeedWay]

I can't believe all the uninformed mindless prattle going on here, no wonder I try to avoid this kind of forum where anyone can express their opinion despite the fact they don't have a clue what they are talking about.

+1. Good post but it won't do much good cause the "uninformed" definitely have an agenda here and it has nothing to do with facts or truth.

 

[180mmCrank]

I find these kind of statements and generalistaions about informed and uninformed a little simplistic and not very helpful. We don't have access to the background of contributors - so you can't make statements about how informed they are - unless they are simply factually incorrect. Most of the opinions are subjective - merely opinion not a statement of fact.

The reality is that if we ran a pole of those at the Gila we would probably get a response that favoured having having Astana at the race... not everyone but most I imagine IMHO. And if we ran a pole across this forum or cycling as a whole we would get a different result. I imagine it would be less definative - and not as favourable towards Astana's participation. It may still on balance see the advantages over the disadvantages. Which of these opinions is more informed? Neither! The point is there are pros and cons to this - a discussion forum attempts to give air to different perspectives.

In my opinion I see the advantages of having and preserving different levels of competition. This doesn't mean I can't appreciate the value to the Gila of having high profile riders in the race - it has saved the race - but it has also changed the character of the race. Many of the folk racing may indeed be excited at the prospect of the rare chance of riding in the same race as these guys - but again it changes the event. You/I wouldn't want this to become the norm. That's my point.

 

[PuncturedTyre]

whether i agree or disagree with "nmwildog" he certainly has passion and belief for his event.

Your points would (as stated by Master50) have been better "argued" if you had kept your emotion in check.

I make no apology for my earlier postings - rules being adjusted to accomodate 3 riders who are media sandbagging is a unique US problem.

As for facts - why not email the UCI and ask them for an opinion (on how and why the Mellow Johnny trio) were permitted their race entry.

They're response might curb some of your outburst.

I am happy that your race has enjoyed improved media coverage, times are tough and every dollar counts, so global media coverage is a great tool, when "prospecting" for corporate partners for next years race.

My fears are that once LA has retired again, the short term media spike will be long forgotten and those collective individuals you insulted on this forum, will have something else to write about.

 

[nmwildog]

UCI didn't probably plan it that way but now they look like an organization that actually cares about the little guys as well. I do understand that in US it's all about the fans and sponsors, but letting Astana race would be just wrong to all the other riders. I wouldn't even show up to race...

If the race wants to survive, they may need to change their strategy a little bit...same thing goes for some other US races. Sure they can try to boost the race with having Lance there and that fits the short term ideology better than trying to build a race that would be around even after 20-30 years from now.

D'oh,
OJ just in case you might want to learn something, the Tour of the Gila has been around for 23 years already and hopefully for 23 more. Of course you never heard of it 'til Lance came, thus making my point. Lance=Good for Gila
No Lance=Bad for Gila. And to those who think that a 105 mile stage in 85 degree heat, near 0% humidity, with over 9000 feet of climbing, after 4 days of hard racing, is "piddly", I challenge you to come for our 24th annual Tour of the Gila and try it out. My bet is you will DNF, although DNS is just as/more likely.

 

[nmwildog]

M 50, I'm rude but right

I can't believe all the uninformed mindless prattle going on here, no wonder I try to avoid this kind of forum where anyone can express their opinion despite the fact they don't have a clue what they are talking about. QUOTE]

Hey Dog
This is how to win the hearts and minds of the denizens here? Insult the forumites and tell us what idiots we are? Come on You have been working 1 race for 23 years and that makes you an expert. I too have been working in the sport for about that long and have worked events like the tour of California and worked races in Qatar, Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, Brazil, USA, England, and Canada so if it is perspective you want I have some. Most of my arguments are generic when speaking about the intent of the rules and I do have to make 1 very important concession to your condescending and insulting diatribe.

Yes I admit I was a bit insulting, but when you read drivel it's hard not to be. At my age I don't suffer fools well. I find it interesting that you are quick to assume that because I stated I'd worked on this race for 23 years it's the only experience I've had. Just for the record I went to my first bicycle race in April 1968 (Ronde van Vlaanderen), and worked my first race later that year. I have been working on races and racing in them for the last 41 years. In that time I"ve seen a lot of changes and not many of them for the better. I have worked on races all over the world, including top level UCI races like Giro d'Italia, Dauphine Libere, Fleche Wallone, etc. I have done nearly every job in bike racing. Rider, Soigneur, Director, Mechanic, Commisaire, Photographer, and Motard. I believe I have as good a perspective on the history and development of the sport as most, and better than many. It's easy to fly off the handle on these forums where no one is really face to face, and you're right, I shouldn't dispense with manners just because I'm not face to face. To hear the ignorant, misinformed, and just downright biased opinions people like to throw out can, however, try even the most patient, of whom I am not one.