UCI helped Froome with illegal(?) TUE at Romandie

[TANK91]

Can mods change the title it was perfectly legal.

 

[JimmyFingers]

No. 1 on my list of suspects would be Sir Bradley..... Paving his way back to be designated leader for Team SKY in the TdF

And a nice pay-back for the crap from Team Froomster over the past year

 

[TANK91]

Also im not really up to date with all things doping would you guys say it looks bad getting a TUE?. Why not give no rider a TUE would that help? Or isit unfair in some cases.

 

[bigcog]

Can mods change the title it was perfectly legal.

Don't be silly, that would spoil all the fun. Seems like a strong rebuttal from the UCI.

 

[Benotti69]

Seems some posters are missing the TUE is for a substance, prednisone, that is given to people suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema. Now why would a guy be racing with COPD? Or why would a guy need a TUE for prednisone if he doesn't have COPD?

Why did the UCI grant a TUE for a rider suffering of COPD and instead tell team, rider too ill to race and if not then why let a guy take prednisone if he wasn't ill?

UCI look bad, Froome looks bad and Sky look bad.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Also im not really up to date with all things doping would you guys say it looks bad getting a TUE?. Why not give no rider a TUE would that help? Or isit unfair in some cases.

If the illness was so severe as to require systemic cortico-steroids, he should not have been racing, that is assuming it was really an illness....
Assuming it was a genuine illness, the SKY management have probably jeopardised his TdF, looking at his performance this past week.

Personally I endorse the MPCC rule of using systemic corticosteroids means eight days out of racing from the completion of the dosage. Not even thinking of the performance benefits which result, but of the damage it can occur to the human body from the effects such as softening of tendons and ligament insertions, suppression of the adrenal cortex functions, amongst others.

 

[Walkman]

Seems some posters are missing the TUE is for a substance, prednisone, that is given to people suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema. Now why would a guy be racing with COPD? Or why would a guy need a TUE for prednisone if he doesn't have COPD?

Why did the UCI grant a TUE for a rider suffering of COPD and instead tell team, rider too ill to race and if not then why let a guy take prednisone if he wasn't ill?

UCI look bad, Froome looks bad and Sky look bad.

Really weird situation. I can't believe how UCI can be incompetent enough to handle things this way.

 

[Merckx index]

The one and only thing I liked about what Walsh said in his book on Sky (didn't read it, but did see lots of excerpts) is that--despite all his fawning over Froome--he said his impression of him was that he was very fragile, on the cusp of poor health, and that he didn't expect him to have a long run at the top of the GT world.

One secret to Froome's success has surely been his even-by-pro-cycling-standards emaciated body. A very narrow line between losing enough weight to become an elite climber and weakening your immune system to the point where you are vulnerable to a host of maladies. This isn't new to pro peloton riders, of course, but Froome may well have taken it further than most.

 

[bigcog]

The one and only thing I liked about what Walsh said in his book on Sky (didn't read it, but did see lots of excerpts) is that--despite all his fawning over Froome--he said his impression of him was that he was very fragile, on the cusp of poor health, and that he didn't expect him to have a long run at the top of the GT world.

One secret to Froome's success has surely been his even-by-pro-cycling-standards emaciated body. A very narrow line between losing enough weight to become an elite climber and weakening your immune system to the point where you are vulnerable to a host of maladies. This isn't new to pro peloton riders, of course, but Froome may well have taken it further than most.

Totally agree with this. Compare him to Contador who looks positively healthy. It also explains his performance degrading over the course of races and his apparent frailty such as after the crash on Friday.

 

[MBotero]

Look at the timeline again. "sick" at LBL. Let's argue for a minute that was real. A reasonable person expects some sort of middling (for a TdF winner) performance and a "yeah, I'm still recovering from XYZ." a couple of days later.

But, no. A recovering rider just a couple of days later has peloton leading power. As with everything else about Sky, none of it makes any sense.

Sure but this time they are running out of explanations.

 

[JibberJim]

Seems some posters are missing the TUE is for a substance, prednisone, that is given to people suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema. Now why would a guy be racing with COPD? Or why would a guy need a TUE for prednisone if he doesn't have COPD?

No, it is WADA's sensible things:
http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/S...Medical_info_Post_Infectious_Cough_3.0_EN.pdf

However, as per the timeline before, the need to:

"TUE requirements: A TUE is required for use of oral glucocorticosteriods
in-competition. The application should demonstrate a failed trial of inhaled
glucocorticosteriods."

I can't see how that failed trial could've been shown.

 

[zigmeister]

Seems some posters are missing the TUE is for a substance, prednisone, that is given to people suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema. Now why would a guy be racing with COPD? Or why would a guy need a TUE for prednisone if he doesn't have COPD?

Why did the UCI grant a TUE for a rider suffering of COPD and instead tell team, rider too ill to race and if not then why let a guy take prednisone if he wasn't ill?

UCI look bad, Froome looks bad and Sky look bad.

That is a corticosteroid. Simple, it is for inflammation. And it was "Prednisolone", not prednisone. Slight difference, but similar in what they do.

But, BINGO! If you have such an illness, WTF are you doing competing with 40mg/day of that stuff.

As an FYI, the normal body under normal conditions makes about 8-12mg/day of cortisol. 40mg/day will begin to shutdown your natural production. Then, after stopping your body will reboot and start making more itself. But that isn't a small dosage, but not completely unusual either for a short period of time. dosages of 60-80mg/day for 5 days, tapering down to lower is normal.

Here is the big thing, they are claiming for a viral/infection. The only thing that would do is help with some inflammation...otherwise, you aren't getting rid of the infection/virus. So he did some amazing/miracle performance taking this stuff, while having a serious infection?!?!

Why do people doubt Sky/Froome and Cycling still today...I wonder.

If the illness was so severe as to require systemic cortico-steroids, he should not have been racing, that is assuming it was really an illness....
Assuming it was a genuine illness, the SKY management have probably jeopardised his TdF, looking at his performance this past week.

Personally I endorse the MPCC rule of using systemic corticosteroids means eight days out of racing from the completion of the dosage. Not even thinking of the performance benefits which result, but of the damage it can occur to the human body from the effects such as softening of tendons and ligament insertions, suppression of the adrenal cortex functions, amongst others.

Meh...short usage, no real effect on the body, long-term, yes. A normal run of Medrol (4x stronger than cortisone) does a high dose 5 day taper usually from like 60mg down to 20mg over that period.

Really weird situation. I can't believe how UCI can be incompetent enough to handle things this way.

Yes, and all under the newly reformed UCI leadership, Cookson.

Unreal...un-f&$king real.

 

[webbie146]

Totally agree with this. Compare him to Contador who looks positively healthy. It also explains his performance degrading over the course of races and his apparent frailty such as after the crash on Friday.

I agree

Quote from Ferrari: "Not only respiratory diseases but also muscle fatigue, tendinitis and digestive problems assaulted the more fragile athletes in the peloton.
Cyclists, in addition to food, ingest water and mud from the pavement, which often contains parasites: worm and protozoa infection are definitely not uncommon, draining the energies well beyond the physiological fatigue of a stage race.

And it is riders such as Wiggins and Hesjedal, along with Froome and Gesink, the prototypes of the latest generation of riders whose fragility I had already pointed out (see comment for the TdF of 07/24/12), that are the first to pay the price for such weather conditions, inevitably having to quit the Giro .
Physically very tall and perhaps too thin, they are more exposed to wind and cold compared to more compact and less taut athletes."

 

[JimmyFingers]

Anecdotally just been chatting to a friend via facebook about this. He rides brevet, did the L-E-L last year, so does very serious mileage. He says he rode faster with a chest infection on that drug that he did normally, and that it made him feel like an animal:

May be legal, but 40mg of prednisolone makes you feel like a bit of an animal. When I'm on it, I get about 4.5hrs sleep, never feel tired, and can get PBs despite carrying a lung full of lemon curd. Never tried them when not ill, but suspect they are quite "recreational".

 

[TailWindHome]

It's the non-threat threat. We act like we're going to sue you, don't even bother to use the actual word "lawsuit" so that we can take the posture that we're fighting the unjust press, but later no one can prove we said we were going to sue.

The non-threat threat being the normal response to the non-accusation accusation.

 

[TailWindHome]

Lets see:

1. rider that won race has TUE for otherwise banned substance. check
2. facts are leaked by the French press. check
3. rider has claimed never having any TUEs, performances are as clean as the driven snow. check
4. UCI official involved in according of TUE. check
5. UCI says everything is OK, everybody move on please. check
6. trolls abound to discredit any discussion about wrong doings. check

The big difference so far is that I haven't seen anything about TUE-holding rider making generous donations to UCI. Yet.

The big difference is that the Lance TUE was a UCI enabled fabrication in order to cover up a failed test. Lance knew it was false. The UCI knew it was false and crucially Emma O Reilly knew it was false.

There's nothing currently in evidence that this was the case in the Froome TUE.

 

[Will Carter]

Quote:

Harry Koene @hkoene
We only give prednisone (next to antibiotics) for chest infection in patients with COPD... Amount of bull**** is increasing

COPD = Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema

So it looks like Froome is on a team program. Well that does not shock me.

Will they drop him from TdF now he is truly glowing........

The Asthma UK website states a dose of 40-50mg / day (http://www.asthma.org.uk/knowledge-bank-treatment-and-medicines-steroid-tablets).

Seems we have a difference of opinion ...

 

[Benotti69]

The big difference is that the Lance TUE was a UCI enabled fabrication in order to cover up a failed test. Lance knew it was false. The UCI knew it was false and crucially Emma O Reilly knew it was false.

There's nothing currently in evidence that this was the case in the Froome TUE.

So Sky are more in tune with what their riders are taking and know what will pop a positive. Hence the 'urgent' TUE.

Someone body knows this was false and leaked it to a French paper.

If Froome needed so much medication due to illness he was not fit to race.

Also we have Brailsford saying that they would not do TUEs

 

[red_flanders]

The big difference is that the Lance TUE was a UCI enabled fabrication in order to cover up a failed test. Lance knew it was false. The UCI knew it was false and crucially Emma O Reilly knew it was false.

There's nothing currently in evidence that this was the case in the Froome TUE.

Nor was there in 1999 when the Armstrong situation occurred.

 

[Benotti69]

The Asthma UK website states a dose of 40-50mg / day (http://www.asthma.org.uk/knowledge-bank-treatment-and-medicines-steroid-tablets).

Seems we have a difference of opinion ...

Astham UK websote also says

"When you are taking regular tablet steroids your adrenal gland becomes lazy, and makes less of its own natural steroids. This means you have less ability to cope with infections or deal with physical stress."

Like to give an opinion how Froome can do the physical stress!

 

[Will Carter]

Seems some posters are missing the TUE is for a substance, prednisone, that is given to people suffering from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease: e.g. emphysema. Now why would a guy be racing with COPD? Or why would a guy need a TUE for prednisone if he doesn't have COPD?

Why did the UCI grant a TUE for a rider suffering of COPD and instead tell team, rider too ill to race and if not then why let a guy take prednisone if he wasn't ill?

UCI look bad, Froome looks bad and Sky look bad.

Its Prednisolone he had the TUE for not Prednisone (although they are very similar).

Prednisolone is a principal treatment for Asthma

http://www.asthma.org.uk/knowledge-bank-treatment-and-medicines-steroid-tablets

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prednisolone

"Prednisolone is a corticosteroid drug with predominant glucocorticoid and low mineralocorticoid activity, making it useful for the treatment of a wide range of inflammatory and auto-immune conditions[2] such as asthma,[3] uveitis ..."

 

[Will Carter]

Astham UK websote also says

"When you are taking regular tablet steroids your adrenal gland becomes lazy, and makes less of its own natural steroids. This means you have less ability to cope with infections or deal with physical stress."

Like to give an opinion how Froome can do the physical stress!

I'm not debating the other points made, just that it has been stated on here a number times that the steroid in question is only given to people with COPD / Emphysema / etc. which is a misrepresentation of the facts.

 

[TailWindHome]

Brian Cookson OBE ‏@BrianCooksonUCI · 9m
I recognise the legacy I have inherited is an atmosphere of distrust around our sport. You should (and you will) judge me on my actions. 1/2

Brian Cookson OBE ‏@BrianCooksonUCI · 7m
But smears and innuendoes are one thing, and facts are another. UCI and I will be commenting more on this matter over the next few days.

 

[Benotti69]

I'm not debating the other points made, just that it has been stated on here a number times that the steroid in question is only given to people with COPD / Emphysema / etc. which is a misrepresentation of the facts.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/emphysema/basics/treatment/con-20014218

Medications

Depending upon the severity of your symptoms, your doctor might suggest:

Bronchodilators. These drugs can help relieve coughing, shortness of breath and breathing problems by relaxing constricted airways, but they're not as effective in treating emphysema as they are in treating asthma or chronic bronchitis.
Inhaled steroids. Corticosteroid drugs inhaled as aerosol sprays may help relieve shortness of breath. Prolonged use may weaken your bones and increase your risk of high blood pressure, cataracts and diabetes.
Antibiotics. If you develop a bacterial infection, like acute bronchitis or pneumonia, antibiotics are appropriate.

 

[tellywatcher]

Sigh.... Think my mind has been made up about froome. I don't often agree with the hog, but to believe that anyone that needs an emergency treatment for asthma, is then capable of beating healthy elite athletes just defies logic. TUE's should be banned, there is no way for the UCI to know how sick he really was, and if this was an appropriate treatment, unless one of their doctors is actually examining and testing him, and for that reason they are open to abuse and just a temptation for struggling riders and teams