UCI in a panic over document in Friday's L'Equipe

[indurain666]

So French riders are the cleanest???

Carlos Barredo the dirtiest cyclist? What did he do to L'Equipe journalists? Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing that he is cleaner than all these guys...but..

Canc clean??

I actually had some hope that this report would have had some decent information, it is all nonsense. Where is the actual calculation??

Engineer's review: Rejected.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

I'm 100% sure that those who have made the list consider "incredibly stable" values as suspicious too, because that's just not natural.

No way they are above the 2-4 range on that list.

 

[ChrisE]

Held the yellow jersey for the first week. Wanted to win the prologue, do well for the team and himself on the Roubaix stage. Try and help the Schlecks as much as possible later on, win the final TT. He had quite a few goals.

It is a rating system based upon blood values taken over the previous couple of years. What somebody plans to do in X race has nothing to do with the value, unless I am totally missing something.

 

[hrotha]

So French riders are the cleanest???

Carlos Barredo the dirtiest cyclist? What did he do to L'Equipe journalists? Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing that he is cleaner than all these guys...but..

Canc clean??

I actually had some hope that this report would have had some decent information, it is all nonsense. Where is the actual calculation??

Engineer's review: Rejected.

You don't believe French riders, as a general rule, are cleaner? I mean, you can argue about individual values, but I'd say as a way to identify trends this list may be quite useful.

 

[Frosty]

It is a rating system based upon blood values taken over the previous couple of years. What somebody plans to do in X race has nothing to do with the value, unless I am totally missing something.

True, i should have said that. I was just answering the point over whether Cancellara had anything to go for in the race.

 

[maltiv]

No way they are above the 2-4 range on that list.

They would probably be in that range yes.

 

[greenedge]

I think this is ridiculous, Pat make a stand for all the Aussie riders who are 12th on the suspiscious list ( as country )

 

[frenchfry]

Lol. Lots of them. Two riders with indices higher than 2.

Don't be so French.

OK, I was unfair to Rabobank. Maybe because I just can't understand why Denis "Humanplasma" Menchov is allowed to ride and finish on the podium when the team must be aware of his obvious doping.

Must admit though that the French in general and the French teams have some confirmation of their efforts to ride clean. Interesting that the highest scores for French team riders are non-French.

Not nationalism here, but admittedly some satisfaction that the French teams don't appear to be living in the same parallel world as some other teams.

I agree that the team order pretty much corresponds to my feelings on what is going on. Radioshack on top despite likely being the specialists on manipulating the date, Astana not far behind.

I can see why the UCI would like to keep this kind of information secret, it makes a mockery of their statements on doping. Was Contador's positive only the result of instructions from Lancey-poo, otherwise how could he have been the only positive from the 2010 tour?

 

[just some guy]

Maybe the list will become less important in a day. I hope so.

The spot light needs to be pointed at the UCI.

How the list got out?

Why people with bad data were not tested ?

The real results which lead to the score were used ?

Etc etc .ie the process

 

[sniper]

So French riders are the cleanest???

Carlos Barredo the dirtiest cyclist? What did he do to L'Equipe journalists? Don't get me wrong, I am not arguing that he is cleaner than all these guys...but..

Canc clean??

I actually had some hope that this report would have had some decent information, it is all nonsense. Where is the actual calculation??

Engineer's review: Rejected.

The only thing this list says is that Barrero has done a lousy job in dealing with the requirements of the bloodpassport. While others were microdosing their asses off, he apparently made some more blatent mistakes here and there. Not that he's cleaner or dirtier than others. He may or may not be.
Canc, we now know, is on the best program of them all. He rides the fastest, and still manages to keep a clean sheet.

 

[ChrisE]

OK, I was unfair to Rabobank. Maybe because I just can't understand why Denis "Humanplasma" Menchov is allowed to ride and finish on the podium when the team must be aware of his obvious doping.

Must admit though that the French in general and the French teams have some confirmation of their efforts to ride clean. Interesting that the highest scores for French team riders are non-French.

Not nationalism here, but admittedly some satisfaction that the French teams don't appear to be living in the same parallel world as some other teams.

I agree that the team order pretty much corresponds to my feelings on what is going on. Radioshack on top despite likely being the specialists on manipulating the date, Astana not far behind.

I can see why the UCI would like to keep this kind of information secret, it makes a mockery of their statements on doping. Was Contador's positive only the result of instructions from Lancey-poo, otherwise how could he have been the only positive from the 2010 tour?

You know FF this all kinda flies in the face of CV in here, and you hit the nail on the head but maybe you didn't snap to what you were saying.

If RS was still using Ferrari, as everybody suspects, and they are such masters at blood manipulation then how do you explain the results?

Look at Cancs numbers....there is a whole thread based upon his outlandish riding and how he cannot be clean.

Somebody posted upthread (don't care to dig and can't remember the names) about how "reformed" dopers were low on the list. The same argument is used to slam riders that may be clean nowadays. There is a whole thread on this as well.

The fact is, nobody can say with any amount of certainty who is clean and who is not based upon what they "feel" or want to believe.

 

[just some guy]

The only thing this list says is that Barrero has done a lousy job in dealing with the requirements of the bloodpassport. While others were microdosing their asses off, he apparently made some more blatent mistakes here and there. Not that he's cleaner or dirtier than others. He may or may not be.
Canc, we now know, is on the best program of them all. He rides the fastest, and still manages to keep a clean sheet.

How do we know that ?

We just have a list of uci numbers for riders we have no idea why he got that number. Maybe his values did not change due to microdosing and thats why he is a 9.

Guessing games

 

[veganrob]

Yes - he had some goals. But realistically not something he would take risks for.

Before the spring classics - for sure, they should have been target testing him daily if necessary - but before the tour, its not surprising he wasnt a high risk.

But yes - I agree with those who are saying that some of those with lower risk profiles are definitely due to better and more precise prep work/science.

It's not a risk if one knows they are not going to be tested.

 

[killswitch]

Canc, we now know, is on the best program of them all. He rides the fastest, and still manages to keep a clean sheet.

Even better than the Shack program? Lance, Basso, Alberto and the Schlecks must be really jealous.

 

[thingswelike]

Nobody outside of this forum is picking up on the 'highly suspected rider = test less" quote. How reliable is the translation?

Is the laboratory really telling the testers to only take urine and not blood from the 9s and 10s? Or is that because they are doing their own blood checks, so they don't want to double-up on expensive tests?

I don't really understand what's going on with this aspect of the leak.

 

[Duartista]

No way they are above the 2-4 range on that list.

It does say in the article that those in charge of monitoring the bio-passport believe a number of riders have too stable blood values. It is not clear whether this was taken into account at the time this list was compiled, or whether these suspicions are more recent.

 

[Frosty]

Nobody outside of this forum is picking up on the 'highly suspected rider = test less" quote. How reliable is the translation?

Is the laboratory really telling the testers to only take urine and not blood from the 9s and 10s? Or is that because they are doing their own blood checks, so they don't want to double-up on expensive tests?

I don't really understand what's going on with this aspect of the leak.

That part wasnt leaked here. Its from the WADA report on drug testing at last year's tour.

 

[frenchfry]

another thing to consider is the timing of the release.

Le tour not getting enough press - Giro and now Cali .

Got to remind the world that the French race clean and have the most important race.

I agree, this reminder is very useful.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

The mistake being made by some people who are surprised to see some of the names at the top is the assumption that doping is the exclusive province of the top contenders. All of them and nobody else.

In fact, dopers exist at pretty much any level of the pro-game. There is no particular reason to assume that a top contender with a programme will have a more suspicious passport than a middle of the pack guy with a programme. The list is not based on race results, but on fluctuations in the bio-passport. The fact that the two guys with the worst rating are good but far from stellar riders is in no sense at all something which undermines the use or interest value of the list.

On another point, the descriptions l'Equipe give to the categories are very interesting.

6-10 appears to mean that the rider concerned has values so peculiar that it is unlikely that there is a non-doping explanation.

5 appears to mean very suspicious, but with a wider window for a non-doping explanation.

2-4 appears to mean that there is an odd result or two but that these anomalies are not inherently ones which give rise to a strong suspicion of doping.

0-1 appears to mean that there is nothing in the passport which is consistent with blood doping funny business.

 

[thehog]

OK, I was unfair to Rabobank. Maybe because I just can't understand why Denis "Humanplasma" Menchov is allowed to ride and finish on the podium when the team must be aware of his obvious doping.

Must admit though that the French in general and the French teams have some confirmation of their efforts to ride clean. Interesting that the highest scores for French team riders are non-French.

Not nationalism here, but admittedly some satisfaction that the French teams don't appear to be living in the same parallel world as some other teams.

I agree that the team order pretty much corresponds to my feelings on what is going on. Radioshack on top despite likely being the specialists on manipulating the date, Astana not far behind.

I can see why the UCI would like to keep this kind of information secret, it makes a mockery of their statements on doping. Was Contador's positive only the result of instructions from Lancey-poo, otherwise how could he have been the only positive from the 2010 tour?

I thought that the French didn't train hard enough?

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

I thought that the French didn't train hard enough?

This is actually also true.

I heard stories from Clement when he rode for Bouygues and Nuyens when he rode for Cofidis. You wouldn't believe how amateuristic and how many years behind the training schedules were

 

[frenchfry]

I thought that the French didn't train hard enough?

The fact that they appear not to dope doesn't mean that they actually train hard. In fact, maybe the fact the others dope more gives them an excuse to take it easy.

On the other hand, maybe they train as hard as anyone else.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Should the higher up boys be done for blood passports? I am totally confused.Some people who you would expect to be higher are quite low and guys who you'd think would be low are high.

Interesting to what McQuaid will come up with.

 

[Lanark]

This is actually also true.

I heard stories from Clement when he rode for Bouygues and Nuyens when he rode for Cofidis. You wouldn't believe how amateuristic and how many years behind the training schedules were

True, but it's probably a combination of factors. That the French are cleaner (not completely or universally clean, but cleaner) shouldn't suprise anyone, should it?

 

[Lanark]

TBH if there's a new Spanish signing for Rabo I'd have suspected, it wasn't Barredo.

Yeah, I expected Luis Leon to be at least above a 5, maybe a 7 or 8, but never thought Barredo would be this suspicious.