UCI Points system

[tobydawq]

I wouldn't say Cofidis overperformed. Ferron sure (even tho he's had good results in that race before), but Coquard in Australia isn't a surprise (and everyone expected him to score more in Cadel Evans) and especially Aranburu failed. But sure, it doesn't seem impossible anymore. I expected a good Astana, but sure it's even better. Let's see if they can keep going like this.

Fair point, but I think Coquard winning one and podiuming three stages was above expected. But not the case for the Cadel race.

 

[pastronef]

Astana sticking with 1.1 races I see - Muscat Classic on the 7th.

Big question is what will happen with Lotto if they can not get more sponsorship.

can I say a wicked thing? if Lotto and Arkea folded it would be a huge breath for many teams. for Total, Uno-X, Q36 and Tudor it would be music for their ears in 2026. and for the 4 Spanish pro-conti even more

 

[Samamba]

can I say a wicked thing? if Lotto and Arkea folded it would be a huge breath for many teams. for Total, Uno-X, Q36 and Tudor it would be music for their ears in 2026. and for the 4 Spanish pro-conti even more

What's wicked about saying that? Of course there's team hoping they can sneak in the WT (guaranteed WCs) easier and earlier than hoped. They really don't care if other teams fold. But Lotto won't fold (yet) if they don't completely bottle their advantage. Buit if they do it doesn't even matter cause both Lotto and Arkea would even be a top 2 Pro Team then.

 

[pastronef]

What's wicked about saying that? Of course there's team hoping they can sneak in the WT (guaranteed WCs) easier and earlier than hoped. They really don't care if other teams fold. But Lotto won't fold (yet) if they don't completely bottle their advantage. Buit if they do it doesn't even matter cause both Lotto and Arkea would even be a top 2 Pro Team then.

wicked because riders and staff would lose their jobs if they fold. but things would get easier for other teams

 

[Samamba]

wicked because riders and staff would lose their jobs if they fold. but things would get easier for other teams

It would be wicked if you said that you personally hope they'd fold.

 

[yaco]

Fair point, but I think Coquard winning one and podiuming three stages was above expected. But not the case for the Cadel race.

I posted in the Australian race thread that in the women's race that Woollaston should never have been in a position to make the final, except the women rode too passivley, however, the men rode aggressively, hence no Coquard in the front group.

 

[ingsve]

a wildcard PRO team, should attend each WT race, the same as WT team does. if it can't do it, then the wildcard should be revoked, and passed to other team.

Remember that ProTeams generally have smaller budgets than WT teams so forcing them to the same schedule of going down under or to China etc. might not be fair.

 

[aruipksni]

Remember that ProTeams generally have smaller budgets than WT teams so forcing them to the same schedule of going down under or to China etc. might not be fair.

that is not true for the wild card candidates, specially this year (2025), when Swiss pro teams paid millions for riders.

 

[Rockestar_33]

Astana already closed 500 point of the 5000 point gap to Cofidis they had before the season. And that's with Cofidis overperforming with Coquard and Ferron and Bettiol being on holiday in kit in Australia.

Yes, but they've also been using some of their best riders so far and most teams haven't used their top liners yet. They have to increase that gap in points pretty much every month. One bad month and it'll make it impossible.

Once guys like Pogi, Jonas, Remco, Rogla, Wout, MVDP, Philipsen etc start racing Astana will have a much tougher time winning points.

 

[ingsve]

that is not true for the wild card candidates, specially this year (2025), when Swiss pro teams paid millions for riders.

Well, it's true for Uno-X and lots of other ProTeams. You can't make a rule based on one or two teams.

 

[tobydawq]

Yes, but they've also been using some of their best riders so far and most teams haven't used their top liners yet. They have to increase that gap in points pretty much every month. One bad month and it'll make it impossible.

Once guys like Pogi, Jonas, Remco, Rogla, Wout, MVDP, Philipsen etc start racing Astana will have a much tougher time winning points.

True, but they will probably do a lot of very obscure races, maybe also a lot on the Asian scene, where the opposition will be minimal.

And it will certainly not become easier for Cofidis to score points, either.

 

[Rockestar_33]

True, but they will probably do a lot of very obscure races, maybe also a lot on the Asian scene, where the opposition will be minimal.

And it will certainly not become easier for Cofidis to score points, either.

They have a massive gap to Astana. Even if Cofidis only score 2/3 of their previous two years Astana will still need to score double what they had at the end of last year.

Astana need to maintain and even improve on their points from their start to the season. One bad month and they're screwed. Cofidis can have two bad months and still be well ahead of Astana, although at that point Arkea could be neck and neck.

 

[aruipksni]

Well, it's true for Uno-X and lots of other ProTeams. You can't make a rule based on one or two teams.

Uno-X now have similar budget as ARKEA and INTERMARCHE, and this 2 teams are doing like a 100 races a year , with this budgets. i believe ARKEA are doing almost all the pro races in the calendar this year., and this year i don't see UNO-X getting any wildcard frankly.

 

[Pozzovivo]

Sending the best riders to WorldTour (WT) races is a suboptimal strategy, despite the theoretical availability of more points. The increased competition in WT makes it almost impossible to score big unless you are a world-class rider.

The real battle is between ASTANA, UNO-X, and Tudor for the two best non-WT teams in the ranking this year, which will be given wildcards to WT next year. Historically, ASTANA's problem is that they send their best riders to WT races. They should completely stop this and target the 1.pro and 1.1 one-day races in Belgium and France like Uno-X does. Uno-X really outperformed Astana on this calendar last and that is where the real battleground is. Lotto realized this and dropped the Giro altogether, scoring big on the so-called "Mickey Mouse" calendar. Uno-X do the same.

In fact despite losing ground, Astana did better than Uno-X in WT last year, and Cofidis does much better than Uno-X in WT. But around 66% of Uno-X's points come from non-WT races, while Cofidis and Astana have 51% and 55% respectively. If Astana can put together a Belgian 1.1 race crew around Teunisen and others, they may be able to edge out one of the two spots. Tudor may be the team missing out, depending highly on Alaphilippe's form.

 

[tobydawq]

Sending the best riders to WorldTour (WT) races is a suboptimal strategy, despite the theoretical availability of more points. The increased competition in WT makes it almost impossible to score big unless you are a world-class rider.

The real battle is between ASTANA, UNO-X, and Tudor for the two best non-WT teams in the ranking this year, which will be given wildcards to WT next year. Historically, ASTANA's problem is that they send their best riders to WT races. They should completely stop this and target the 1.pro and 1.1 one-day races in Belgium and France like Uno-X does. Uno-X really outperformed Astana on this calendar last and that is where the real battleground is. Lotto realized this and dropped the Giro altogether, scoring big on the so-called "Mickey Mouse" calendar. Uno-X do the same.

In fact despite losing ground, Astana did better than Uno-X in WT last year, and Cofidis does much better than Uno-X in WT. But around 66% of Uno-X's points come from non-WT races, while Cofidis and Astana have 51% and 55% respectively. If Astana can put together a Belgian 1.1 race crew around Teunisen and others, they may be able to edge out one of the two spots. Tudor may be the team missing out, depending highly on Alaphilippe's form.

You need to factor into your equation that Uno-X don't do all the WT races so of course they get fewer points there than Cofidis and Astana.

And it's not like they just tank the WT races they do ride as you suggest that Astana should do. While strictly speaking points-wise, it would be a viable strategy, it goes against the entire point of cycling and fortunately, the teams haven't let it come to that yet.

 

[Pozzovivo]

You need to factor into your equation that Uno-X don't do all the WT races so of course they get fewer points there than Cofidis and Astana.

Sure I agree, but that would mostly impact the total amount of points whereas the relative share of points is what I was referring to. Uno -X have 33,34,33% across WT, 1/2.pro and 1.1/2.1. Cofidis got 50%, 23%, 27% while Astana got 43, 22, 23%. They need to shift this to focus mostly on the weaker 1.pro. I bet they would score more total points if they target the weaker races with their best crew.

 

[Pozzovivo]

And it's not like they just tank the WT races they do ride as you suggest that Astana should do. While strictly speaking points-wise, it would be a viable strategy, it goes against the entire point of cycling and fortunately, the teams haven't let it come to that yet.

If you send Scaroni, Velasco etc to the french 2.1 and 2.pro stage races instead of Tirreno, catalunya etc you could score much bigger. Only the best WT races are able to gather big points in WT one weeks. Winning a stage at Dauphine is increadibly difficult and only worth 60 points. Half of a W in a 1.1 race against minimal competition.

 

[aruipksni]

If you send Scaroni, Velasco etc to the french 2.1 and 2.pro stage races instead of Tirreno, catalunya etc you could score much bigger. Only the best WT races are able to gather big points in WT one weeks. Winning a stage at Dauphine is increadibly difficult and only worth 60 points. Half of a W in a 1.1 race against minimal competition.

2.x races only bring you meaningful points just for the total GC - you better do multiple N 1.x races, then one N 2.x stage race.
plus, if you injured your GC guy during one of the early stages in the race, you not only not getting any GC points eventually, but you can loose your GC rider for months.
for the PRO teams, this races are more useful for practice, and i wouldn't risk sending my top GC guy to such a race, unless i am very desperate.

 

[Netserk]

It would be wicked if you said that you personally hope they'd fold.

How so?

I have next to no power to influence their possible demise, and none of my wishes are magic spells so they wouldn't do any harm. I also don't consider it all that harmful that some teams from time to time fold. It's just the circle of life, and we continuously see new teams come to life. As for their wider impact on the sport, I find races with local support far more valuable than teams, but ofc not all teams are the same. It'd be a greater loss if Ag2r folded than if Ineos did, as the former do more to support the lower levels.

In fact, there are some teams that I honestly would very much like to fold. And while it would affect the salary of most riders if several of them folded at once, I don't think the harm to the sport would be the least bit permanent. So the sooner these teams fold, the better:

EF
UAE
Ineos
Arkea
Bahrain
(B)DSM

 

[pastronef]

(B)DSM

I see what you did there. I hope they haven't a van with apparel related with that bullshyt stuff

back to more serious stuff.

Astana
in the past I wanted Nibali's Astana to fold. fast forward 2 years ago Cav made me change my mind, then came Renshaw, Kennaugh and Dowsett and I'm a fan now
Arkea? well yes let them fold
I would say the holy church of FDJ too, but it would be too bad for its acolytes
Lotto? I liked them when there was the Greipel train: Hansen-Henderson-Bak-Sieberg-Greipel. not a fan now.
my Nibali dislike made me dislike Bahrain too. then Cav came, then they smashed it with Moho in Sanremo and he made the shut-up sign, making, among others, the FDJ acolytes go bananas. so no, Bahrain must stay.
with Pat gone Soudal could have gone, spreading its riders over Bora, EF, Tudor, Q36, Jayco, Visma
Alpecin? yes, out!

 

[Samamba]

How so?

I have next to no power to influence their possible demise, and none of my wishes are magic spells so they wouldn't do any harm. I also don't consider it all that harmful that some teams from time to time fold. It's just the circle of life, and we continuously see new teams come to life. As for their wider impact on the sport, I find races with local support far more valuable than teams, but ofc not all teams are the same. It'd be a greater loss if Ag2r folded than if Ineos did, as the former do more to support the lower levels.

In fact, there are some teams that I honestly would very much like to fold. And while it would affect the salary of most riders if several of them folded at once, I don't think the harm to the sport would be the least bit permanent. So the sooner these teams fold, the better:

EF
UAE
Ineos
Arkea
Bahrain
(B)DSM

You can like and dislike teams, but in the end teams folding often means that a lot of people lose their job. So yes in that sense I think it's pretty weird to hope for that scenario. That is just my opinion tho, and in general it depends on how and when teams fold. For example if Arkea decides in May that they are not going to continue next year, people have enough time to find something else, but that doesn't happen often.

 

[danielzu]

Although scoring 210 points in muscat classic and the asian mixed TT championships (now under 4000 points behind cofidis), the races of the last 24 hours could end in a big blow for Astanas ambitions. Gates not scoring at all in the NZ road race (where i think at least 60 points were planned, so I think its a mess that he didn't try / was not able to convince pithie and FFB to work with him) and Cofidis free ride for maybe 200 unexpected points in etoile de bessege is surely bad for them.

But i have to admit, that i don't understand their race planning so far. Harold Martin Lopez and Higuita are/were not competing in the ecuadorian and columbian championships. Both would have had a good chance of scoring points there, maybe at least 100 together. Higuita in the last years (almost) always was on the podium there and would have had Tejada as a good domestique.

Looking at the upcoming participations in pcs i would assume their plan ist to gain points late in the season, as they will compete in many more races compared to cofidis late in the season

 

[Samamba]

Although scoring 210 points in muscat classic and the asian mixed TT championships (now under 4000 points behind cofidis), the races of the last 24 hours could end in a big blow for Astanas ambitions. Gates not scoring at all in the NZ road race (where i think at least 60 points were planned, so I think its a mess that he didn't try / was not able to convince pithie and FFB to work with him) and Cofidis free ride for maybe 200 unexpected points in etoile de bessege is surely bad for them.

But i have to admit, that i don't understand their race planning so far. Harold Martin Lopez and Higuita are/were not competing in the ecuadorian and columbian championships. Both would have had a good chance of scoring points there, maybe at least 100 together. Higuita in the last years (almost) always was on the podium there and would have had Tejada as a good domestique.

Looking at the upcoming participations in pcs i would assume their plan ist to gain points late in the season, as they will compete in many more races compared to cofidis late in the season

Lopez is injured

And they'll get plenty of extra points next week with Tour of Oman and escpecially Murcia and the Asian Champs RR and TT.

 

[Potomac]

 

[Berniece]

If they keep on going like this it would happen, but they won't be able to keep going like this.

Why is this different from PCS, btw? There it seems the gap to place 18 is 3.972 points.