UCI to trial disc brakes?

[carolina]

Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.

could you link the article with that statement, please?

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

And they're back:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to-reinstate-disc-brake-trial-in-the-professional-road-peloton-in-june/

Thanks God this time they've checked with riders the details of brake/rotor design changes

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

 

[samhocking]

No team will take up discs until all manufacturers standards are harmonized and you can fit any wheel into any bike and carry on racing just like you can now. At the end of the day, discs are a solution to braking issues in MTB, CX & Commuter bikes.

Personally, I think the peloton would benefit best from looking into anti-lock brake pads like the SABS pads from Kingindustries, although they are fugly in current formats. Knowing you can slam on your brakes around a wet corner and not lock up so easily would definitely prevent some high speed crashes.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

Looking at the actual injury, tearing of the flesh, damages underneath etc. The biggest factor, however, is that it was his left knee. I'm very sceptical that it happened in the way Ventoso claimed I must admit, but I'm also completely unconvinced that the peloton needs disc brakes.

 

[ice&fire]

Re:

No team will take up discs until all manufacturers standards are harmonized and you can fit any wheel into any bike and carry on racing just like you can now. At the end of the day, discs are a solution to braking issues in MTB, CX & Commuter bikes.

Personally, I think the peloton would benefit best from looking into anti-lock brake pads like the SABS pads from Kingindustries, although they are fugly in current formats. Knowing you can slam on your brakes around a wet corner and not lock up so easily would definitely prevent some high speed crashes.

Evans' puncture incident in the 2009 Vuelta was reportedly due to non-availability of the then new campagnolo 11s rear wheels from the neutral service. Talk about wheel standards harmonization

 

[carolina]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

if you look at the complete article, it's very easy to understand:

The UCI Equipment Commission held a private conference call last week with key cycling industry members of the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFSGI) — essentially an industry lobbying group for Olympic sports — during which several key findings were shared. CyclingTips has obtained notes taken during that call.

Perhaps the most impactful finding is that a forensic medical doctor — albeit one commissioned by the WFSGI — has concluded that Ventoso’s gruesome injury was most likely caused by a chainring, not a disc brake rotor. CyclingTips has not obtained a copy of the forensic report.

 

[jmdirt]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

Other than the wound itself, there might be traces of things like chain lube in the wound.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

No team will take up discs until all manufacturers standards are harmonized and you can fit any wheel into any bike and carry on racing just like you can now. At the end of the day, discs are a solution to braking issues in MTB, CX & Commuter bikes.

Personally, I think the peloton would benefit best from looking into anti-lock brake pads like the SABS pads from Kingindustries, although they are fugly in current formats. Knowing you can slam on your brakes around a wet corner and not lock up so easily would definitely prevent some high speed crashes.

I'd prefer it if riders had to stick with normal cabled rim brakes. With the use of power meters, di2, tubulars etc.. the technical skill part of pro cycling has already been drastically reduced. Add in pads which allow riders to brake hard through corners and cover for other sloppy techniques, and yet another facet of cycling will disappear.

A great attack over the top of a climb and on a descent is one of the best things to watch in cycling - riders with the skill to do that shouldn't be bought back to the field solely because of specialist equipment which makes it easy for everyone to do the same.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

Other than the wound itself, there might be traces of things like chain lube in the wound.

Well after the clean up and emergency closure surgery has been performed?

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

Other than the wound itself, there might be traces of things like chain lube in the wound.

Well after the clean up and emergency closure surgery has been performed?

those teeth though.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Well surprise, surprise. Forensic Doctor says Ventoso's injury most likely caused by a chain ring, disc brake trial back in racing again.
Perhaps next time they should investigate the claim of a rider that can't actually remember how he injured himself, with an improbable injury before they jump to false conclusions and ban something!

How can a doctor possibly make that determination?

Other than the wound itself, there might be traces of things like chain lube in the wound.

Well after the clean up and emergency closure surgery has been performed?

those teeth though.

?

 

[glassmoon]

doc could've seen the marks deeper in the wound

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re:

doc could've seen the marks deeper in the wound

The hired forensic doctor that did not do the surgery?

 

[samhocking]

Re: Re:

No team will take up discs until all manufacturers standards are harmonized and you can fit any wheel into any bike and carry on racing just like you can now. At the end of the day, discs are a solution to braking issues in MTB, CX & Commuter bikes.

Personally, I think the peloton would benefit best from looking into anti-lock brake pads like the SABS pads from Kingindustries, although they are fugly in current formats. Knowing you can slam on your brakes around a wet corner and not lock up so easily would definitely prevent some high speed crashes.

I'd prefer it if riders had to stick with normal cabled rim brakes. With the use of power meters, di2, tubulars etc.. the technical skill part of pro cycling has already been drastically reduced. Add in pads which allow riders to brake hard through corners and cover for other sloppy techniques, and yet another facet of cycling will disappear.

A great attack over the top of a climb and on a descent is one of the best things to watch in cycling - riders with the skill to do that shouldn't be bought back to the field solely because of specialist equipment which makes it easy for everyone to do the same.

ABS doesn't kick in until you've lost control, so a rider who knows how to brake better than another will still race faster. ABS is insurance, for when you brake poorly. It's not a performance gain like traction control.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

No team will take up discs until all manufacturers standards are harmonized and you can fit any wheel into any bike and carry on racing just like you can now. At the end of the day, discs are a solution to braking issues in MTB, CX & Commuter bikes.

Personally, I think the peloton would benefit best from looking into anti-lock brake pads like the SABS pads from Kingindustries, although they are fugly in current formats. Knowing you can slam on your brakes around a wet corner and not lock up so easily would definitely prevent some high speed crashes.

I'd prefer it if riders had to stick with normal cabled rim brakes. With the use of power meters, di2, tubulars etc.. the technical skill part of pro cycling has already been drastically reduced. Add in pads which allow riders to brake hard through corners and cover for other sloppy techniques, and yet another facet of cycling will disappear.

A great attack over the top of a climb and on a descent is one of the best things to watch in cycling - riders with the skill to do that shouldn't be bought back to the field solely because of specialist equipment which makes it easy for everyone to do the same.

ABS doesn't kick in until you've lost control, so a rider who knows how to brake better than another will still race faster. ABS is insurance, for when you brake poorly. It's not a performance gain like traction control.

But that insurance will allow poorer bike handlers to take more risks and approach corners faster, knowing that they can always bail out by braking while in the corner. They may only have to use the ABS for one in every ten corners, so in the other nine they will have improved their performance by having the insurance of the ABS there.

These developments to make riding easier are a real shame imo at the professional level. Bike handling and technique is pretty much the only facet of cycling that can't be manipulated by doping, money, motors etc... and every year the advantage that good bike handlers have is being reduced by new technology.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Bike handling and technique is pretty much the only facet of cycling that can't be manipulated by doping, money, motors etc...

Perhaps not directly but bike handling skill, decisions and reactions are negatively affected by fatigue. Doping reduces fatigue.

 

[pastronef]

Reinier Honig´s veeeery hot disc brakes

https://www.twitter.com/ReinierHonig/status/829032803970981890

 

[myrideissteelerthanyours]

Reinier Honig´s veeeery hot disc brakes

https://www.twitter.com/ReinierHonig/status/829032803970981890

Isnt "this aspect of disc brakes" the only useful function of disc brakes: to prevent your rims from heating up and tires from melting/exploding?

 

[Tim B]

Reinier Honig´s veeeery hot disc brakes

https://www.twitter.com/ReinierHonig/status/82903280397098
1890

Isnt "this aspect of disc brakes" the only useful function of disc brakes: to prevent your rims from heating up and tires from melting/exploding?

Yes, exactly, well except for
- they work better in the dry on long fast technical descents with heavy braking in switchbacks etc
- they work better in the wet all of the time
- thru axles generally make the front of the bike stiffer and align the wheel perfectly.
- it is easy to swap between wheels because you don't have to worry about rim width, rim material, tyre width etc and adjusting your calipers and pads afterwards (they do need to work out how to deal with slightly different rotor spacing though with neutral service, for me at home it isn't an issue as I have spaced my rotors the same)
- it is far cheaper to replace a worn out rotor than worn out rim
- no overheating issues for rims, tubes, tyres.
- possibly some other stuff too

 

[DFA123]

Reinier Honig´s veeeery hot disc brakes

https://www.twitter.com/ReinierHonig/status/829032803970981890

Isnt "this aspect of disc brakes" the only useful function of disc brakes: to prevent your rims from heating up and tires from melting/exploding?

Yes, that was my thinking - not sure what point Honig is trying to make. If you put some water on some rims after a descent with lots of heavy breaking they would sizzle as well.

Not that this is much of an issue in the pro peloton anyway, when they have closed roads and can be off the brakes for most of the descent.

 

[Ricco']

I don't get the fuss with disk brakes. So much innovation and brake makers can't seem to design a safe protection to prevent some issues that may arise in crashes and that.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I don't get the fuss with disk brakes. So much innovation and brake makers can't seem to design a safe protection to prevent some issues that may arise in crashes and that.

Indeed. I think the fuss is largely generated by manufacturers who see it as a big cash cow. And then that is perpetuated by a few riders whose use cycling mostly as a vehicle for their main hobby - which is shopping.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Re: Re:

I don't get the fuss with disk brakes. So much innovation and brake makers can't seem to design a safe protection to prevent some issues that may arise in crashes and that.

Indeed. I think the fuss is largely generated by manufacturers who see it as a big cash cow. And then that is perpetuated by a few riders whose use cycling mostly as a vehicle for their main hobby - which is shopping.

The industry is pushing disc because of consumer demand. We've already known for years that disc brakes preform better (those of us that actually use them), but the PT contingent is only just starting to figure this out now. You think the industry doing this just to bank off a few gear whores? Please. We've jumped through these hoops 3x over with mtb, cx, now road.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

I don't get the fuss with disk brakes. So much innovation and brake makers can't seem to design a safe protection to prevent some issues that may arise in crashes and that.

Indeed. I think the fuss is largely generated by manufacturers who see it as a big cash cow. And then that is perpetuated by a few riders whose use cycling mostly as a vehicle for their main hobby - which is shopping.

The industry is pushing disc because of consumer demand. We've already known for years that disc brakes preform better (those of us that actually use them), but the PT contingent is only just starting to figure this out now. You think the industry doing this just to bank off a few gear whores? Please. We've jumped through these hoops 3x over with mtb, cx, now road.

Yes, exactly that. MTB and CX are completely different because often the limiter was the brakes not tyre traction. On road, even in wet conditions, rim brakes can provide more than enough stopping power to reach the limit of tyre traction. Unless a rider is really overweight, then they could be useful I suppose. Perhaps Betancur should be the face of them. Basically, like electronic shifting, it's just an expensive gimmick on a road bike.