UCI World Championships 2010, Geelong: Early Thread

[tgsgirl]

I was actually surprised by the way they pronounced "Robert Gesink", which was... almost exactly right

Not that much to get wrong, is there? Except for the <e> in Gesink.

 

[ingsve]

Not that much to get wrong, is there? Except for the <e> in Gesink.

Well, the G-sound (voiced velar fricative) in dutch doesn't exist naturally in english so if a lot of people get that wrong it's no surprise.

 

[hrotha]

Well, the G-sound (voiced velar fricative) in dutch doesn't exist naturally in english so if a lot of people get that wrong it's no surprise.

These were French speakers though, and the French /r/ is a decent substitute for the Dutch /g/.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well, the G-sound (voiced velar fricative) in dutch doesn't exist naturally in english so if a lot of people get that wrong it's no surprise.

But the worst, and most commonly made mistake, by english speakers is they replace the G with an H for inexplainable reasons.

Somebody should tell them it's really a G there, not Hesink or Jesink.

 

[ingsve]

It's the <ij> that they always get wrong, turning it into ai. Claisters, where it should be a sound that comes closest to the vowel in they.

Well, that's a fairly minor mispronounciation. There are a lot worse examples out there.

 

[ingsve]

But the worst, and most commonly made mistake, by english speakers is they replace the G with an H for inexplainable reasons.

Somebody should tell them it's really a G there, not Hesink or Jesink.

Well, it's actually not that hard to understand. Since the velar fricative doesn't exist the natural thing when trying to mimic it is to take the closest they have when trying to pronounce the sound further back in the mounth and what happens is they go back to far to the glottal fricative H.

We see the same thing with especially american english when trying to pronounce the spanish J which also turns into an H-sound for them.

 

[tgsgirl]

Well, that's a fairly minor mispronounciation. There are a lot worse examples out there.

I know, but I was just watching her match (final!!), so it was the first one that came to mind

 

[jaylew]

It's the <ij> that they always get wrong, turning it into ai. Claisters, where it should be a sound that comes closest to the vowel in they.

Ah, thanks.

Well, it's actually not that hard to understand. Since the velar fricative doesn't exist the natural thing when trying to mimic it is to take the closest they have when trying to pronounce the sound further back in the mounth and what happens is they go back to far to the glottal fricative H.

We see the same thing with especially american english when trying to pronounce the spanish J which also turns into an H-sound for them.

I never really knew how Gesink was supposed to be pronounced. I'd heard the hard 'G' and the 'H' but didn't know which was correct, if either. Makes sense then, if it's like the Spanish 'J'. Good info.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Erm yes.

You really have no clue, I've listened to plenty of English commentary due to livestreams this season and they got an awesome mistake-rate in pronouncing foreign names.

I was more suprised when they finally got 1 name right.

One of my favourite commentators, Matt keenan always struggles with pronunciation but I find him the best commentator. It's odd. We could do the same for Dutch, Italian or Spanish commentators pronunciation of English names.

 

[hrotha]

One of my favourite commentators, Matt keenan always struggles with pronunciation but I find him the best commentator. It's odd. We could do the same for Dutch, Italian or Spanish commentators pronunciation of English names.

The problem with Spanish commentators is not the pronunciation of English names. That's bearable. The problem is the way they insist on pronouncing everything as if it were English. Say, Christian Knees. Knees. English knees. Gah.

 

[ingsve]

I never really knew how Gesink was supposed to be pronounced. I'd heard the hard 'G' and the 'H' but didn't know which was correct, if either. Makes sense then, if it's like the Spanish 'J'. Good info.

It's not exactly like the spanish J but very close. Technically the spanish J is a uvular fricative and the dutch G is a velar fricative. Uvular sounds are pronounced with the back of the tongue near the uvula (that dangling thing in the back of the mouth) whereas velar sounds are pronounced a little ahead of that with the back of the tongue against the back roof of the mouth.

Both sounds tend to go towards an H when spoken by english speakers.

 

[ingsve]

The problem with Spanish commentators is not the pronunciation of English names. That's bearable. The problem is the way they insist on pronouncing everything as if it were English. Say, Christian Knees. Knees. English knees. Gah.

Oh, that is bad. It's like they're not even trying then.

 

[theswordsman]

3 pages on pronunciations?

 

[jaylew]

Change your settings. It won't even be a page worth and it won't seem so bad.

 

[theyoungest]

Not that much to get wrong, is there? Except for the <e> in Gesink.

The G? Hellooo? I'd rate that one above the "ij" in Clijsters, TBH.

 

[stefrees]

If you want people incorrectly naming names, listen to any Aston Villa game on BBC radio WM - in fact brummies can mispronounce anything even easy English names.

 

[tgsgirl]

The G? Hellooo? I'd rate that one above the "ij" in Clijsters, TBH.

I've never heard an English speaker pronounce Gesink, tbh.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Someone should let English speakers know that they pronounce almost every single foreign name wrong. Welcome to the club.

Fair enough, point taken. As so often happens, I am humbled by you polyglots.

I tried practising the velar fricative dutch G. It didn't sound right, even to me, and was quite startling for those in the room with me.

@tgsgirl - From my point of view Clijsters was a good example. Kim is popular in Australia and often spoken of, particularly when the pro tour is in town for the Australian Open.

 

[Cobblestoned]

Markus Burghardt out for Germany (Infection)
Thats a hard loss.

He will be replaced by Dominic Klemme - the official Ullrich-double

 

[Polyarmour]

If Australia loses one of it's 9 who will be the replacement?

 

[theyoungest]

Wout Poels replaces Ten Dam on the Dutch squad for the Worlds.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Wout Poels replaces Ten Dam on the Dutch squad for the Worlds.

For some reson I thought it was Wouter Poels

Anyway, here is an interview with Cadel Evans before the worlds traning for the GP de Wallonie

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

I suspect you're thinking of Wouter Mol

 

[hrotha]

Spanish team announced:

Road race: Óscar Freire (Rabobank), Juan Manuel Gárate (Rabobank), Samuel Sánchez (Euskaltel-Euskadi), Joaquim Rodríguez (Katusha), Carlos Barredo (Quick Step), Haimar Zubeldia (RadioShack), Francisco José Ventoso (Carmioro NGC), Luis León Sánchez (Caisse d’Epargne) and Imanol Erviti (Caisse d’Epargne).

Time trial: Luis León Sánchez and Rubén Plaza (Caisse d’Epargne)

First off, I thought LL Sánchez wasn't doing the TT?

As for the rest, I'm not sure what's the point of having two sprinters in the team, especially when one of them is Freire so he's not likely to need a leadout (not that Ventoso has any experience being the leadout man, as far as I know). The others look rather solid, although I don't think the course suits Purito at all so maybe I wouldn't have selected him.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Erviti because of his Vuelta stage win?

Oh well, Spain has like 60 riders to chose from who could all do decent here.